The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 4 months ago

Revenue Innovators: Insight Selling: Help Your Buyers Make the Right Decision

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

NOTE: This is a special episode from our sister podcast, Revenue Innovators. For more, you can subscribe to the show here or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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When everyone talks about customer centricity making it easy to buy, what we've learned over the past year is some of that translates to making it easier to sell.

That’s verbatim from Hang Black, VP of Global Revenue Enablement at Juniper Networks. We had the privilege of learning from her about how the intersection between operations and enablement affects both buyers and sellers.

In this episode, we also discussed:

  • 44% of Millenials don’t want to interact with sellers at all
  • Social selling and customer-centricity
  • Why ambiverts make great sales professionals
  • What’s most desirable in automation tools
  • How the remote environment promotes diversity and inclusion

Welcome to the revenue in vers thepodcast powered by rage when we skip the usual podcast guest. It goesstraight to the source of true revenue: innovation, interview, mad scientist,revenue disruptors from all kinds of surprising in disprise. That's right!So they have something in common to be a leader looking to the future and notthe past, their forts who are breaking glass in their go to market or resin,and not just getting through to day. Where are you o, i'm very shame, otiatethat outrage and in cogis vice president rety excellent, an operationalso, we see a a a week and we promise tokeep it spicy for you, let's to welcome back to everyone to revenue,innovators, podcast with arishmell an and mary. She were so exciting today towelcome. Hang black to the podcast, so welcome here. It's great to have yougreat to see you again and thanks for having me here yeah, it's a pleasure.I've been following hangs career for several years now and she is someonethat i admire tremendously out in the world and for all the work that she'sdoing so hey for those of you don't know her is the bp a global revenue,the navale at jennifer networks and hen. Do you want to tell us a little bit ortell the audience a little bit about your role and what you do day todaysure? So, as you mentioned, i've got a global romit, a crossed, a very complexportfolio across mini gio, so we've got sales teams, services, partners, sesanybody that touches revenue in a customer facing role and we've gotmultiple segments, service, sovid, er cloud enterprise, so very pleased tosay we serve a very complex portfolio, but in a very targeted manner, so thateach person is treated very uniquely for their specific needs, fabulous. Sojust a minor not during complex roll. It sounds like yes, small role, but i love it. And howlong have you been in the role? Hey? I've been in the role for two and ahalf years and as with many enablement professionals and roles that start off,i was a mighty team of one person, and you can imagine what the work lookslike when you're servicing four send people to sand and sales, two thousanda d services and across all the various personas, where one size doesn't fitall got it well. I know that you have followed much of my writing. As ifollowed your career over the years- and i don't know if you remember, butprobably three or four years ago i wrote a report that was kind of from agittan, i hope somewhat seminal and it was called the future sells. An ablemanis to s sweet and in that report i just had this vision that the role of anable man was going to become so...

...important that either there would be asea in front of that. This is title or that person would report right into thesea. Suite. What's interesting to me about your role now: is we're nottalking about sales enablement, we're talking about revenue enablement, so isthat just a rebranding of the cells ableman role? Or how do you see it? Youknow at your company and how is it different from a more traditional sales,an ape et role? Well, let's look at sales enablement, the history of salesenablement. What i would call sales in a able went, one dado with simplytechnical product training. It reported either into h, r or sales engineeringas it got bigger. It started rolling up into marketing where we're talking nowmore about messaging is as well right and eventually it rolled into sales ups,because it was became more of the day to day what i've been seeing now isthat it will typically report into the cro or into some part of the c suiteand in some companies, even to the ceo now my hope is one day, there's a largeenough role where that world, the enowe role gets to see in front of it as well,but the good news is when i began with sales enablement. We movefrom technical product training to delivery of content creation anddelivery. Now we're all about content. Curration very pin pointed strategicdelivery of content, curated and process seas and behavior specific tothe person, and i keep saying specific to the persona because, as you know,mary buying has become very complex, which means selling has become verycomplex. We have so many different roles within services ourselves. Wehave there's about twenty different roles and we're not. We can't giveeveryone the same content, because if you can imagine if we can save twominutes per cellar per week or per revenue facing person, how many hoursdoes that add up to and how much? How many millions is that add to per yearand hang you know we're talking a little about it, be e. The enablementprofession has become a lot more strategical to your point covers abigger save service area. But what grove that right? What changed themarket place or what changed our bar seller environment, where, in yourperspective, enablement went from a nice to have to critical a hab in orderscale proactively? Absolutely well. I think if we believe that the buyershave gotten more savvy, does it then not follow that in order to keep up thesellers have to become more savvy, so it's not just relationship sellinganymore. It's not just about dinner and a game of golf right. If you look at a lot of the data outthere, many buyers do not want to interact with sellers at all,especially millennials, forty four percent of millennials. Now i wouldactually- and i have these conversations with my analyst friends-i would actually say that not only the fine committee has expanded, but thisselling committee has expanded. I might...

...actually even be provocative to sayit's not that they don't that they don't want to interact with theirsellers. They want to interact with them a secretely and meet them wherethey're living. So what do i mean by that in two thousand and eight, withthe real estate crush? We saw this. This move towards d, risking with youbuy. So when we d risk, the buyer committee expands to five point fourand then over time to six point two to six point: eight to eight point, fourto eleven point: two and eleven point: seven. I think it's going to flat nowat around twelve, because otherwise you'll get a still make a decisionmaking, but that also means, if you look at thereverse of it, which i don't think people have considered yet is theselling committee has actually grown quite a bit too. We just don't know it.When vendors are looking at me and i get about two hundred emails a week,and i tell them lip, don't email me. Don't call me, don't leave me a voicemail and they still do, but in those interactions it's not thati don't want to interact with them. I want to do my own research and then iwant to be able to react to them when i'm ready. So i expect them to beengaging with me on linked in so we called it. Social selling we've calledit digital selling, but what i really doing is meeting our customers wherethey are. So if we wonder why enablement has gotten so complex, it'sbecause they're sellers we have to prep that not just to know about how to takeyour customer to lunch or just knowing about the individual product. It'sactually about insight selling it's actually about. If i go, if i have anallergy, do i go to the store and buy sank alegre or clareti? Every single somer is going to tell me.I can solve your allergy problem and they're all telling the truth right.But what, if i have one seller who tells me well based on your medicalhistory, because i'm trolled you based on your medical history, you'realso suffering from these other systems and you're, probably taking this othermedication which will contradict with these other side effects. Therefore, mymedication is best for you. We have to make the customer feel like they'recomfortable, making the right decision, because we are insight selling asynchronously and they will. The customer will contact you when they'reready, because you've done your homework yeah. That's so wonderful toher and, i think, being on the other side being an industry now, just a fewmonths, you see how many cold calls you get and how many called out reach youget and i actually take calls if the outreach is personalized, tailorand makes sense for my area of interest, because i want to constantly learn, asi'm sure you do as well, and of course we shut down things that don't thatdon't have that level of personalization and insight. It'sinteresting. You mentioned gardner a forester and i'm an avitat of those.Now as well, and i was reading a recent report from gardner. That said, youknow by two thousand and twenty five. Sixty percent of salar will be focusedon insides, driven selling, and so...

...that's quite a sales model shift fromwhere we are today to where we need to be. How are you and your organizationpreparing your sellers for this type of environment? Well, first of all we werealready trying to digitize as much as possibly before, and if you look atscott galileis work, the pandemic has not necessarily been a change agent.It's been a change accelerator, so there were things we were alreadyworking on, especially around the tool, sack and automation and digital andsocial selling, but now it's just quite frankly accelerated. So we have broughtin. We have really really fine tune, our sales cadence tool, some people useout reach when people use sells loft and then we're also bringing on callintelligence will be turning that up, but really fine tuning it not to justhow do we automate, but how do we automate for the new world? Not justtaking marketing messaging, but, like you said mary, how do you use be salessools to hyper personalize as well drive, maybe less activity but moreeffective activity? So in our organization we have, we have separatedout sales and alemen sales operations. We both report directly to the cro. Sowhat i would say is the way we look at it. Operations is about sales,efficiency and enablement is around sales. Efficacy right, so one is about.Are we doing the right activities and on my side is, are we doing the rightactivities right? So i own a certain set of tools that touches messaging andsales cadence and it walks right up to the cm and where the cram takes overand looks at leaflet at moves over to sales, ops and marketing offs. So we'rereally now looking at what other tools can we add to this fact that will help extract the mundane out of our sellerstime, but also extract any interaction that our customers don't want? What isit that they can that they can solve easily either self service through chatmot through messure? They don't want to touch a human when they're ready totouch a human. We are ready to be there to engage so it's taking the mandaneout of both when everyone talks about customers centricity, making it easy tobuy. What we've learned over the past year is some of that translates to makeit it easier to sell and hang. I appreciate that in, but take this toback here, and we were talking about the evolution of sales enablement, butthat also means the evolution of the seller and the seller profile. Right, imean we're talking about cellar. O. Can be dot consulting a have diagnose. Youknow, diagnose your problems, how the layer in messaging work with youeastern critics, like i understand all of these sales technologies have topartner on that sales profile right, because you need a traffic differentkind of cellar. You need to attack, attract the you know, the profilechanges from back. In my day we took everyone for a ting, dinners andmartinis, and we got deals done to people understand how to consume allthis information and signal and and...

...consume the enamel round it and provideor provocative buying, buying engagement. How do you provide bed backinto that profile? Love in an help lington that for the company? Well,tell you what, in previous companies, we set up a varigated interview processand the last gate of the interview is a panel interview, typically with thehiring manager, their counterpart. If so, you're in sales, then the se leaderit the if it's an s leader, if you're hiring for a sc, then then the the seleader and as well as the field sales manager right and there's also anenablement persona in there, and we play different roles. So one day we maywalk in and say: okay, mary today you're going to play the mo harishyou're going to play the to and i'm going to play the dio, and we ask acertain set of questions. So here's a thing i actually don't tell them whatto prepare for. I tell them. You're going to pitch to us, you're can pitchto s sweet. What i'm looking for. How are they engaging each of us? Are theyengaging the individual roles not just to the person that they're selling toor they're trying to get their job from, and i'm looking for what insights theycan share with me? So at the end of it we will often you know, it's very true.You know will often say your typical sales guy. You know you're saying toomuch you talk to you fast. You say too much: you're not listening to thecustomer you're, not addressing every single customer, but it that piece iscoachable. So what do we look for? We look for and the only guidance i givethem. Is you have twenty minutes you're talking to these three people, you'reselling, to a five thousand person gogel company, i don't give themguidance around. Is it a white board? Is it a presentation? I don't get. Whatare you selling me juniper? Are you selling me cisco, you're selling mesoap? I don't give them any guidance, but what i'm looking for is their salesdiscipline? How much are they poking around questions around a salesmanmethodology, i'm a fan of medic, but any sales methodology? Are they askingthe right discovery, questions and finding the data sets to help thecustom makes it make sense of it, so we're looking for not necessarilyextroverts but ambiverts, so that they've got the listening skills aswell and we're looking for people who can make sense of data and not justbuild a report in presence. I love ambeer. I love sales discipline evenmore than hang up. For you know once you once you bind that talent, thediamond and the rub, the biggest responsibilities with a neo or on onboarding and there's so much emphasis put on on boarding right now, becausethat's unlocking for activity to time to ramp. You know etaient multiplier,practici multiply whatever you can create from efficacy standpoint. Thereis huge. How do you process on boarding and what the pandemic house thatchanged and how are you, leaning into remote on boarding and how's, your teamadopted? What are you seeing out about? Well again, i'm very proud of my team.We were able to pivot i again within...

...three weeks. We a yes and it wasliterally we had just delivered. Thank goodness, we had just deliver our lastone. We run at an on boarding program for about forty people. Twenty to fortypeople every month, o justly our entire sea suit, is engaged because that's howimportant it is to them and when we were in person it was three eight hoursdays now it's for four hour days and our c sweet come in twenty minutes at atime and it's it's, the beginning of the process is less about againtechnical product training. It's about how do you navigate the company everysingle one of our leaders? We asked that them for four slides. What hasbeen your career journey because it gives the the new hire and impressionof? How does that leader think about their job role? Then we ask them fortheir leadership montre. Then we last them for their org structure and howthey built out their orc structure with those four pieces of information. Bythe time we get to midweek, the sellers have a really good understanding of howdo i operate in this network in this company? Now we in enablement, we havethree pillars that we that we have equal emphasis on on boarding being oneof them, but on going as well so with on boarding, as you know, everyonewants to decrease ram time. So what we try to do is not only shorten the curbbut flatten it as well, but it's really really important and i really want toemphasize the people that once you've on boarded someone it's equallyimportant to continuously nurture them with ongoing, because if you losesomeone someone in their second year, as you know, mary brings in one and ahalf to two back o bookings. If you bring it be on twenty three months,they bring in three to five x a first year. So if you lose a tenured personand bring in a new person, you are replacing, you are, you know bridging agap of not months but years. So it's really important for us to measureattrition as part of the quality of our enablement program and hang as if youyou know, you manage a pivot. All your on boarding in three days, which is gotto be some sort of world record, and i don't ee three. We three weeks ave gotto be a world record to a worrall of technology play there. Were you allready for caring pro mote on border daying? What what part of stack did youhave to change or rethink or some hands on of how you manage to do it and andwhat parts of that process going to keep as we come out of post pandemic,and were you going to go back kid in person yeah? So i believe thateverything is going to normalize a little bit and when i say normal ee idon't mean the old normal. I don't. I don't mean what people deem to be thenew normal, but i always call it the next normal right, so the next normalis always evolving over time. I do believe i don't know if you watch thevoice during the pandemic firs they first they killed the showand then when they brought it back, you...

...had people distanced and then you hadbasically a ton of monitors, replace the human beings right and, as morepeople came back, guess what a lot of those monitors didn't go away. So whati'm trying to plan for in our internal engagements, but also are externalengagements, whether it's with the field, whether it's with you, know acustomer bc. I believe that we're going to begin living in what i'm calling ahyper hybrid world where, instead of one individual screen representing oneperson, you may have at one screen representing boston, you may haveanother screen representing chicago, so people may still be traveling, butthey're traveling shorter distances in order to be very aware and respectfulof carbon footprint of time spent with family, but also to still have thathuman engagement. So i'm trying i'm right now working with a lot of ourpartner companies, our customers, to see you know what does that look like?What is that? How do we shape that? Together technologies, where we've gotcamera tracking in a single room with with many people in it, but maybe wehave four or five rooms so, instead of everyone coming to headquarters insunny vail, you've got some people in an office in london, some people invarious offices and the beauty of that is it further reaches into our urbancities, which will help us bring in more diversity of customer and morediversity of talent yeah. I love how you're thinking about this hyper,hybrid, we're all hay and i've been thinking about it. A lot as well, andalso thinking about the winston churchill quote, which was you know.Never let a good crisis go to waste and i don't want to make light of a very,very difficult, challenging time globally for many of us in differentways, but simultaneously with those challenges, i've observed massivetransformation and innovation, whether it's new cells models, whether it's newbusiness model, said when you think about this hybrid or hyper hybrid world,that you're talking about many of the things that we had to do to survive during the pen init. We want to keep with us as we go forward, and so i think in personevents, i guess sell sports now is announced to dream forces live, but ithink, as we you know, i think the impersona events will perceive the oneo one sales meetings or the ones on many meetings and one of the benefitsfrom the hybrid approaches. Instead of just one or two executives going, youcould have the whole team go and digitally consuming content at the timeand choosing of your place right and then potentially, you can interact agroup small group with ten to twelve people that have very, very similarinterests. So i think we'll see this hybrid world play out differently andindustry events and also in the sales meeting, and i love the way you'redescribing it, because i have a lot of sellers asking me. When are we goingback to normal, and i agree with you-...

...i've been calling it a different normal,but i like, i think i like what you said- the next normal better, which iswe're just moving forward and you can go on site but you're going to bedealing with a distributed self side distributed by side team right, so youmay actually be talking in person, but you've got monitors with ten or twelveother people who are remote. So i think that's super super interesting to see how thisis all going to unfold. I've actually been thinking that the onside sales,meaning could actually become a skew. I know this is a controversial way. I wasthinking about it, but something that the by side team might be willing topay for and that you go outside as a seller at the time and choosing of thebuyers selection process. I know it's a little different because we've alwaysthinking about sellers going out doing a certain number of meetings and someof those being in person, and what do you think about the concept of of the buying committee sort of drivingthe forma that is fascinating? I love that and i had not thought of thatbefore. But, interestingly enough, i have already been doing that withpartner enablement. So with partner enablement, we have our different tiersright, so different tiers of commitment from the partner side gives them accessto levels of mdf right and so from a partner, ableman side. It's kind of wetalked about paper, gold, silver, platinum partners and then plasticpartners right plastic because everybody yous can consume what's ondemand. What i had built in several situations has been the same withenablement right. If you are this tera partner, you get everything on demand,plus some hours of virtual. If you are this type of partner, you get somehours in person. If you get this of canned content, if you are thisplatinum level of partner, then you get very highly bespoke content to yourliking. In your space at your time of convenience, so i love the idea ofmaybe we let the have the buyer shape that process kind of like you wouldbuild ps and as right yeah. I i been just kind of toying around with theidea and and i'm sort of taken with it as well, so we'll have to see how itall involved. No doubt i'm a bit future forward on that, but we'll see where ittakes us. I wanted to just take a moment to circle back to the technologydiscussion because i said real passion of mind amongst many other topics heretoday now i think you have sort of a top tier sales text stack from what iknow from our conversations and if you in some other technologies that you'relooking to bring into the organization. One of the things i think that's outthere is sort of a misconception is that this technology, as it gets moreand more sophisticated with more powerful automation and machinelearning, and i i then it's going to...

...disintermediation the seller or it'sjust designed for that front of the cycle. Rap who's working on highvelocity and it doesn't allow for a lot of customization, and i think that sofar from the truth, how are you thinking about a top ter technologystack and the ability for tech to really support a more consultativeenterprise, type of engagement, so i'll ask back a question this way? Would you rather type on a typewriterand use white out or even worse, if you recall the days of the the eraser andwheel with the brush of the other end, but would you rather type your bookmanuscript on a computer? Well, it's the second right, and why is that?Because it makes it a lot more efficient to edit it time saves me. Ican save the document. I can go back, i can edit i could delete, i can moveblocks around is, but the human is still involved in both of those storiesright. So we don't want to use automation to replace the human. So ifyou look at it's just to make the human more smarter and more effective rightso again, if you look at sales office, are we doing the right things? Are weare we even looking at the right activities? Are we efficient with thoseactivities and on the in enablement side of the house? Are we doing thosethings effectively? You still need the brain power of the sales person. Theyjust get to spend more time uplifting what they do so, for instance, when i'mcreating outreach sequences, i can touch a lot more customers withouthaving to remember. Where am i with each customer and as i go down thoseyou know seventeen to twenty steps, i can personalize each of those steps. Idon't have to personalize the the framework of the email. I can take thatemail change a few key words in there and now it's personalized, so i justget to be a lot more efficient and effective. With my customer yeah, icompletely agree, and i think it's sometimes the effectiveness gets lostin the efficiency right, because some of these tools are incredibly efficientand you can't help, but you know, build amazing our lie cases, but ultimately,at the end of the day, what we do on the tax side is help. Our customerscreate better experiences for their customers, so it's all, like you, said,finding the right channel finding the right message getting the right time toconnect with someone in a way that matters for them. So whatever you cando to keep getting the word out there. You know, please do don't at the other side of that coin,hangin marina, i'm sure. So in one way, technology is a great provider of agreat experience and efficiency in the other way. Every other new piece oftechnology that you have you're, creating one more layer of date offragmentation and one more stylo data so appears how we you balance thatright, because one we live in a world...

...where it was like get is a commodity isdat, a prelibation right, the protis yeah there is, but there's notinformation from liperata, because you almost have too much data. You don'tknow what to do with it. I don't know which is a right source for leading orlanding. So he hang. How do you balance that right, so prating a perfect starewith fit for purpose systems and then making sure that you're pulling theright data information out over there? That is so true and i'm having thisdiscussion with all my vendors and with my analysts about the sales sack hasproliferated so crazily that everyone's got like one very nich thing, they'retrying to solve, and then they're all trying to back into each other spacesright and if you talk to a cadence tool or you talk to a sales readinessplatform or you talk to a sills asset management platform, they are all goingto insist that you live on their platform and get there this single panof glass into the other platforms right. So at this point i feel like that isdefinitely a hard problem to solve. So when we look at data automation andsales digitalis tion, i do look at. I am actually in a little bit of aholding pattern for the next twelve months, because i do believe a lot ofthese vendors are goin penance holiday. They have to ye. They have to rightsome of the coal intelligence tools are reaching into forecasting. Some of thereadiness tools are reaching into coaching they're going to have tocollapse so right now the forms are. Who knows what rightyou're right? I completely real exactly exactly so. I think the the automationthat the two automation tools, where i'm going to see value is where theystart pre digesting information for me. So who's going to win. Do i go withkeep everything on the cm, or do i let the cram do this thing and let it eatup forecasting, and then i go with engagement or or call intelligence tokind of be the single pain of plato, single platform. To look at my otherpieces of data. What's going to win for me is how much do each of these tools?What's the ability to localize, meaning, if there's anything, to do withlanguage? Can you do it in local language as well? How many locallanguages, japanese, mandrin, spanish, french, those are mus, haps right andthen my second tear, if you don't have those i'm not even going to talk to youbecause the world does not just live in english anymore. So i'm going to lookfor a localization and i'm going to look at how well does your data talk toother platforms to create that single pane of glass to make sense of thatdata? For me to pre digest that data? For me, instead of just spitting outyour data and by the way you can import other data, i want it to actually besmart enough to pre digest what the other systems are taking in. I lovethat perspective. You write it. The internationalization component is tablestakes that right. We are not s a...

...english centric america, centric worldeconomy anymore. We stopped being that a while ago. So love that perspective,but hanging as you think about the stack and the decisions you want tomake in gobal revienne lent. How do you part of a global sales operations onthat right because they have their own hey? I need information of both ofthese systems for opportunities and podcasting and pipeline, and you haveyour anes like how do you reconcile what is our stack between yourself andthe operations team yeah, so part of my history was there's abouttwo years where i had an identity crisis, because i had been merely adecade in engineering nearly a decade, marketing and at that time, five yearsin sales- and i was kind of like searching for meaning in in the factthat i'd never held the bag before. So how can i represent sales if i've neverpersonally sold? So i became my own consultant in order to sell and knowwhat it was like to hold a bag, and part of that was selling my services asanything sales, consulting marketing, consulting that means sales, ops,marking, opps sales, enablement field marketing. When i was engaged for sales enablement,the very first thing i would do is look at. I would call it lay the patient onthe table. It doesn't matter if, if i'm the theras surgeon or whatever, i wouldlay the patient on the table, bring in all the right doctors and say: okay,this needs to get ripped out replaced. This can be fixed. This just needsmedication. This is part just fine. The reason i give that analogy is because ido have a background in engineering in marking and in sales. I would look atthe marketing of sales, offs and sales tech, enablement text back and to end.So when i did that at juniper we found a hundred and eighty four tools betweenthe three different organizations and then i would go to the sales teams, andi would i would do some truth telling right what the sales ups think of theircheck sack. What is marketing off think what it sales enavant thing, then iwould go to some of our top sellers and have some of our top sales leaders, andi would say what do you think right, so you get to see the balance of the twoand then, by that way, it's not like you know. Hanging enablement is sayingyour baby, your baby's ugly, but mind is beautiful. We're looking at. Whereare the gaps that fall between so from there we build a triumpher between thethree organizations. If i am looking at doing this, how does it affect you? Sobefore we implement anything? We talk to the other organizations now, there'salways a decider there's, always the one decision maker there's a home onewho influences there, someone who's informed and even in a specific tool,the governments may be different. So even though i own my sales cadence tool,my outreach tool, there are pieces of the decision where i let marking offleave the decision, and i follow even though i own the tool sang with salesof sane with marketing ops right, so we...

...kind of pass out. Where do we toucheach other and we let each other leave the discussion in certain places. So ittakes a very discipline and collaborative approach, yeats, a lessonfor everyone in collaboration there yeah very discipline and also matureorganization. It's interesting to see that slowly but surely i think thesilos are starting to break down between marketing sales, rabots and soon, and i think robot is going to be a big driver behind the softening of those of those silas. Iwish we could talk with you for another two hours saying we can't to go. I knowwe both have a real passionate commitment to diversity, equity,inclusion in the world and within the vb selling organization, and so wouldlove to talk with you just for a few moments on this concept of having amore hybrid work force, more virtual interactions. How do you think that'sgoing to impact our ability to get a more heterogeneous southport in place?It's so great that you ask that question diversity. Inclusion is very,very important to me because i believe the rules of the game are slightlydifferent for each of us and they're written by those with our same humanexperience. So what going virtual has allowed is, if you look at any zoomscreen right now, we all have the same real estate. We also have the same ability to raiseour hand and speak and to see who's in q so that you can't just evenconsciously or unconsciously skip certain people. What that has allowed us to do is, ifyou look at the studies right now, the more marginalized the community, themore they're feeling like they belong in a remote environment, thosecommunities. I also prefer to stay remote. I believe thatin an ideal world, what will happen is because we are able to flex thesemuscles of where we can reach into affordable communities non traditionalcommunities. We can hire a better time. There is a big war for talent coming on,and especially war for diverse talent, because companies and business arestarting to see we're only selling to a certain population and we're missingout on all these other populations and who do those populations want to buyfrom diversity, begets diversity and not just physical diversity. Clearly iam a female and polar, but there are other things of me that that arediverse. I am a single working mother and that carries with it with it someother adversities, but when we're all different and unique, we and we allhave the same real estate will all be more of the same. So what this isbrought along is a lot more ability to be to have voice to have access and tohave more belonging, and i do think, as...

...people revert back to being more inperson, we will have built that extra diversity and inclusion into theenvironment that hopefully we will be be able to bring back in the physicalspaces as well. Well, i certainly hope so too, and ican't take you enough for being with us today and being with our audience. Itwas such a wonderful and dynamic conversation, and every time we speak,i learned something new from you. So really really wonderful to have youhere is a guest and thank you so much for joining us and thank you all forjoining us today on revenue, innovators, podcast. We look forward to seeing youand the very near future. Absolutely my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the revenueinnovators, podcast o we're doing here. Please leave us a five star rating anda shining review. Did you recover yourself and you're, not care to sales?Paco community sing out, go to soutar to become a member. Ask questions, getfast answers and your experiences with twenty and lift minder professionalswho, shaking things o your own organizations. We see you back on thispodcast every other week to learn from the los most.

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