The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

167. Announcing: Revenue Innovators Podcast

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Sam Jacobs talks with Mary Shea and Harish M about the newest podcast by Outreach, Revenue Innovators.

You'll also get a first look at one of the first episodes of Revenue Innovators with Scott Sutton.

If you leave a 5-star review and rating for Revenue Innovators, please send a screenshot to marketing@saleshacker.com and we’ll send you a $5 Starbucks gift card.

Everybody, its sam jacobs, welcome tothe sales hacker podcast today on the show. We've got a really excitingepisode, because we've got a different podcast, we're actually bringing youthe very first episode. The falsae is launching called therevenue innovators, podcast and the hosts are with me on the line and we'regoing to talk to them all about. What's going to happen with the revenueinnovators podcast, why they started it with the two hoste mary she and hurry,mohan and i'll, give them an opportunity to introduce themselves,but so we're really excited to bring this to you, because it is the veryfirst episode of this brand new podcast and we've got actually a contest thatwill tell you about right before we get into it now before we get there, we dohave sponsors we do have. We do have to thank our sponsors because they help usput food on the table. So let me tell you about them. The first, of course,is out reach out. Reach has been a long time sponsor of this podcast that i'msure outreach will be a supporter of the revenue innovators podcast. Theyjust launched a new way to learn out reach on our reach is the place tolearn how i out reach well, does out reach, learn how the team follows upwith every lead and record time after virtual events and turn to them intorevenue. You can also see how are truns account base plays managers raps in somuch more using their very own sales engagement platform. Everything backedup by data pulled from out reach processes in the customer base, whenyou're done, you'll be able to do it as well as they do head to out reach thatio forward. Slash on out reach to see what they've got going on the thesecond sponsor, as always, is pavilion, formerly known as revenue. Collectivepavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membershipconnects you with the network of thousands of like minded peers andresources where you can tap into leadership, opportunities, training,mentorship and other services made for high growth leaders. Like you unlockyour professional potential with the pavilion membership, leaders at everystage can get started to day at join pavilion com and, finally, our sponsor is linked in today'svirtual selling. Environment demands a new kind of approach, one thatpriorities, the buyer above all else, as the world's largest professionalnetwork, with over seven hundred and twenty two million members linkin isthe only place where buyers and sellers connect share and drive success foreach other every day find new ways to connect with your bias, virtually withlinked in sails, never learn more or request a free demo at business, dot,linkin, forges sales, dash solutions now marian hurry. Welcome and thank youso much for joining us and for launching the revenue, innovators,podcast, mary. You are the global innovation evangelist at outrage andhurich. You are the spp of revenue, excellence and operations. Also atoutraged. Welcome to welcome to our introductory show. Well. Thank you, sam thanks. So muchit's great to be here. We're excited to have you, so let mary! Why don't westart just? What is what our revenue in innovators tell us? What inspired thename? Tell us what we can expect when we listen to the show yeah thanks for asking. So you know, aswe come out of this global pandemic, i've been thinking a lot and writingquite a bit about the fact that we're in the midst of some pretty significantsocietal business, fanfoa ion coupled with massive technological innovation,as you start to think about your own world, whether it's in the personalside or when the work work side. I know people are trying to prioritize healthand well being and think about new collaboration models and figuring out.You know the role that automation and ai is going to have in our lives, and ijust started to think about business models, sales model, sales,messes, really transforming, and using this i think this period as we get backout into the world for very, very significant innovation. And so wewanted to create a podcast that was designed for leaders in the reputedworld who are innovating and finding new ways to go to market new ways toput the fire at the center of all their strategies, who are completely armingtheir go to arcot teams. With talk to your selfs technologies- and these arefolks that we think over indexes on data versus sort of the art of leadingand sounding and so her chand- i were kicking this around for a while, and wehad some other really creative folks working with us, and we came up withthe title: love it harish when what first of all your title is spp ofrevenue, excellence and operations? Does that tell us more about that, butalso tell us? So what are some of the big topics? You're excited to cover onthe podcast yeah? No, no, panama, mary! I have the mole the only person that iwrote as a fancier title than me, but now it's a great point. In thereason we call it revenue, excellence and operations. Is you know, and thebit masta passionate about having you know watching his podcast with mary isred. Bobs has kind of been around for a few years now. You know we percolatedit's kind of go from forming norm in god. If you think about a you, know theindustry, the industry, awareness and...

...how people are doing it. It's so verynacon. There's a lot of comprimait buys a lot of people, don't think about itas sales of s possible right. It's really not breaking that barrier, butreally remov become. It should be that base line. He owns the customer, jurith andbusiness model and the end and helps you drive in a vain helps. You drive adata. Centric approach has to be bier sandra and that's what we call itrevene excellent in operations, because it's not only about data and o, butit's about execution excellence as well, and taking that data and drivingexecution and that's part of what we expect the retinue innovator to do.Rigine redly innovator is not just a a ret or a sales manager. A readyinnovator happens across all pots of the redner, but really has a date.Centricity bars, centricity one channel approach to a customer jurny and andthat's what we're trying to build and that's the conversation we going tohave the market we want to get away with our comprobant buys and talk aboutwhat need things. People are doing may be outside of tech that we can all geta it. Well, let's let me ask each of you one more question and then we'lldive into the episode, but hurry to that point. If, if we're thinking aboutrevenue, innovation, what are some of the the? What what are you hearing outthere in the market as some examples of what people are doing from aninnovation perspective, to bring new revenue strategies that are focused onbieces and data, centricity yeah? Absolutely right i mean, and you knowwe was up at one of the episodes, but we have red men. Leaders came from asupply chain background right, as i tink leads up to ebers episode wherethey're looking at well. How do we use data supply than how do we do forecastthings up pisen? How do we? How do we meet the customer where they were? Howdo we learn from customer usage habits to pull back into into the customerjourney? So that's one example: if you look at consumer pg and how they targetcustomers and learn and build a gate, a model around your customer three d,sixty and all your behaviors and every time i open up, you know i open mycomputer, i'm like yeah, you know what i haven't had chickory n a while. Howdid they read my mind me? What happy that should come to software right andespecially where your buyers more intelligent, your buyers and patientwere used to doing zoom. Thirty minute conversations, i want to get aconversation or had value that thaten sit, centricity happening outside oftact is now coming to attack and we're starting to see and talk to some of theinnovators that are going to be launching in about an and marie. Youprobably have put ther of examples. From your perspective, yeah, absolutely saying to her, ishaming. We want to talk to leaders who are out their breaking glass who arefinding new ways to arm their selling organization, and we also want to talkto companies. You know folks at ourcompanies have all changed in the sizes as for each mentioned, we learn a lotfrom the tech industry and services, but we also want to talk to some largertraditional businesses, maybe even some that are considered legacy, whetherthey're packaging or you know beverage companies or other types ofretailers who deal with massive quantities of data and have found waysto be really bicetre in terms of how they go to market. So we're superexcited and looking forward to learning a lot and interviewing some reallyexciting leaders out there in the market place. It's we're all incrediblyexcited last question for you, mary who's, the ideal audience for this whoneeds to pay attention to this podcast. If folks are out there listening, andyou really want to make sure that there's a certain group of people thattune in every wednesday when the show or every other wednesday who is who isin your mind, sure it's. You know your most ambitious focus on the revenant team. So, asharry said, certainly were interviewing. You know s sweet executives or a seniorlevel executives, but we're also looking at director levels and otherfolks who are of the comers. So i really think it's anyone who is really interested in you know:building long term relationships taking a digital first approach with a datamindst who wants to continue to learn and grow in their career, so it can be.You know that top revenue officer it can be someone in charge of revons oreven more traditionally, sales operations, and even your individualcontributors, who are looking to really get an edge as it relates to going tomarket, was more of the science rather than the art. I love it well. Well,what's i'm excited for it and thank you somuch for joining us as an introduction on the show and sharing a bit about itagain. It's called revenue innovators for folks that are out there. You canfind it on all of your favorite platforms. Every other wednesday wereactually about to listen to the very first episode featuring mary harison,their guest right now now before we jump into it, i want to let you know alot about a little launch contest. That's happening in support of revenue,innovators. If you leave a five star rating and review for e, the podcastsend a screen shot of it to marketing...

...it sales hacker and will send you afive dollar stop starbucks gift card which should get you most of a coffee.We hope depends on what's happening with inflation at starbucks, but wewill send you a five dollar daec gift card just send a screen shout of yourfive star rating in review to marketing at sales hacker, so listen and enjoy itsubscribe, and let us send use some coffee now, let's listen to day's veryfirst episode of revenue, innovators! Welcome to the revenue in veers thepodcast power by arage while skip the usual podcast guests. It goes straightto the source of true revenue, innovation, interview, mad scientists,revenue destructors from all kinds of surprising in this race. That's right,but he a something in comebee. Looking to the future and not the past, theirfolks who are breaking lives in their go market, al resin, and not justgetting through to day, where you hot, i'm very shame, o innovation evangel isthat outrage and a senior vice president ran ellenora ion also he has our o as a week and we promisedto keep it spicy for you. What's jo welcome back to everyone, mary shakehere: global innovation, evangelist with out race, along with my callingharry small on our spp of raps and strategy, we're here today, speakingwith scott song, from zoom in so so scott. Thank you so much for joining uswore re the hay on the show- and i wonder if you would spend just a fewmoments, telling the audits a little bit about what you do and see i and howyou typically spend your days. Yes, awesome! Thank you both mary and areach for having me am the vp revenue operations as zamano, and so you know, day to day i spend most of mytime focusing on our god. Market operations are going to mark a textback and really helping the craft an engineer. You know we consider theworld class good to market process here. So evolutionary journey were a lot ofhats, but i think that's part of the fun that we all sent up for awesome.Thank yous got on one of the reasons i was super excited of the many reasonsto get you on from the show was your background riding. We talked to a lotof remeny operations professionals and you look at where they got they start.It starts from the traditional like operation, sales, ops and builds up it,but that's not you and i think, a lot. I think a lot of where you came from-and i side is in the world of making trucks and starting with actualmanufacturing and bringing those principles in what would want to get alittle bit more ni background of how you got started and ops and how youfound your way to retenue operations. It is interesting, and i look back andi reflect- and you know we all kind of look at our own development throughlife and and how we arrived over at and and probably wouldn't, do it adifferent way, but but it's always kind of the serendipity journey. So iactually started out in supply chin and even getting in to supply chain was wasserendipity. I had a a professor lee budrus, who was transformative, he'sspent hours talking with me after class and talking about logistics andtransportation, and how to build world plas supply chains and really was. Youknow, fostered that creative side in trying to solve problems, and it wassomething where there was a huge need in the market and it was, it wasapplicable, so go in there and ended up studying he actually lenie, my firstjob out of school with dimar doing supply logistics, and when i, when iexited from from school, it was actually in two thousand and eightythousand and nine right amidst the real estate crash and the financial crisis.And so it was a really tough time- and i remember you know we shut down afactory, we we lak, you know, lit off quite a few people. We we store on awhole brand and one of my early jobs was going around and and trying to dealwith these bankruptcies, and so you know kind of coming through that wholesupply chain lens. I think the core tenants of what i learned throughoutthat is how to design we rolls processes were really big into totalproduction system and- and i spend time in mexico helping build out a new semitrack factory and and so a lot of those different applications of creativeproblem solving i, what puzzles my whole life fun fact is that i used todo rubics cue competitively, you know, and it was just you know, playing chessor poker. Those are the kind of things that were always the you know trying tosolve problems in a unique way. Yeah that's on some, but i think you know that curiosity,the learning the trying to adapt a skill set to a new a new challenge hasbeen something that i've carried with me. My whole life and- and i found zoomin fo all also had a certain depity. It was actually van instar post fromsomeone. My gym, who said i work at this amazing company, is doing bigthings discover work at the time you...

...should come on down and i met withhenry i met with chris hays philip, and we spend you know a few months goingback and forth on. What's the right role was right job i joined rightbefore the acquisition of sumano, and you know they took a big chance on meand that provided amazing mentorship. But i brought that that data drivenkind of supply chain- tenacity with me and under their stewards shave learneda lot very quickly that how to run this ass business, how to run and build agreat go to market engine, and since then it's been something really funthat we've done together and now kind of i'm helping to accelerate. Beyondthat vision, while they start to focus on bigger, bigger challenges and othernew areas of the business, that's so fascinating. Scoter said a couple ofdifferent areas that i find personally really interesting. One is thisserendipity aspect of finding a job? I think the best jobs that i've ever hadhave been, where i've kind of found myself at the right time at the rightplace, and i was willing to take that jump that leap and take a big risk.What's really interesting to me and you, as anticipated, my next question- and iknow we haven't even talked about this and treves conversations- i really wantto ask you: did you have to talk your way into the job and anserinae? Youknow your background of your qualifications were so different fromwhat you know executives might hire for for rebo or go to market leadershiproll and yet, at the same time, what you brought the table seem to betransformed into the company. So we're bosses sort of open to your backgroundor be ye, do a lot of convincing yeah. There was affinity, a discussion thathappened, and i think my journey too is this kind of evolutionary, and i think you know myown growth and development, and my life was was kind of seeking progression andalso seeking something that was as the right fit for what i wanted toaccomplish and so dier. You know they're very well established companybeen around since even the eighteen hundreds are the first automobilemanufacture hundred and twenty five years in the making, and but a lot ofthat is very good company dynamics, kind of slower growth and i've alwaysbeen in into the text scene, i'm the guy with a news gadget and, and so as iwas going through a forgeting i actually was in finance. I was in forcarman. I tried a lot of different things to help round out the skill set,but there's a point where, when i said you know, i was still a dimor, and isaid what do i really want to be accomplishing in my career? Where do ithink the markets are progressing and i knew that it was in softwareparticularly suffers a service. I knew i was in a smaller company, where icould get a broader experience across the entire business, and so i actuallyended up stumbling upon a program through harvard that taught datanalytics and machine learning, and it was a pilot program that was acombination of the engineering school computer science school as well as thebusiness school, and so is pen two years doing that, and i think what wascompelling is i had some of these like rigor and chas through that work and atthe time i was leading a date olitic company department that company, but i alsowant to plited, i talk to henry they're like huh. Yes, a pluche guy, you knowduti analytics solving type of problems, we could use you and- and so weoriginally started talking about a customer analytics position and kind ofworking in that lane, and eventually it came more in this operational role,leading corporate initiatives, big major programs that the company wastrying to execute against, and it just happened to be the acquisition ofsumendo. So i think it was that project management, the ability to quicklylearn and adapt leverage data and move people in our direction that that wascompelling, but there was definitely a big conversation prior. It lasted aboutsix months that i didn't know know if it was going to happen or not, but ireally really excited that it didn't it's been honestly, it's been the biggest biggest positive teo. My career wasjoining these guys and what what they're accomplishing here such a it'ssuch a great, a great story, and i anticipated it was in a shortconversation, so not a six months for everybody to come toagreement there, but what a wonderful story! I also think you know my cupstarted in in music ology and i to us, i coltan at a pad and do a lot ofresearch and it's funny. You know when you start to think about it: sales andsales tack, there's actually quite a lot of connection between how you, usupposed to regrading your left brand. So i think you know when you bring tothe table, could be so interesting in this particular role. So well great tohear your background. Thank you mary. Maybe that's how we get along so well.I start off with an engineer. So there you go. We got to get the pereat music,an engineering. It's got one of the things we talked about, which you knowreally good residents. We think about reding, innovators and conto of peopleredefine and go to market strategies, and you know the brand wobs role didnot start in tact like we love that you know we kind of go place whereeverything starts to attack and we...

...built everything, but it didn't writing.They started retail. I started in supply chaining many bacterins, so yeahand we're not embracing that concept in the data driven world actually driveback comes i'm cures. I had you adapt what you did and dine learn to therevenue operations. Roll like what? What is this applying chain of sass,look like to you and had it like? How did you bring in your learnings andon't yeah? I think i think it's really good point, and you know if i think,about sassan and and o you know kind of this young growing area of business.One thing that they've constantly done is look for inspiration from other companies as they're growingand developing it, and one of the things i found working for a reallylarge established company is they've got an answer for everything they're,like you know, you ask a question like alway thought about that. This is theright answer and i think, with with sass, it's always like. We don't havean answer. Let's look at at everything and ever you know whatever is out there.So i find a lot of. What i do is is an explorer research process. So you knowi was given a soft for engineering team within revenue operations and i said,what's the world class way to run this, i did tons of research on devos andread all the literature on the best ways to do continuous deployment andconstute integration. Have you know automated qa and test, and i didn'thave a frame of reference to define this, so i was looking at the theindustry leading folks and reading. There's a company in portland that putsout the state of devovet and i started to consume things like this, and ithink is that hunger in that research that leads us to define what worldclass should look like, because we don't have. You know cookie cutter view on that orpreconceived notion and that's why that's what i love to do and that'swhat you know why i think it's really a job fit for me is because i want tofind the new answer that the the best solution- that's never been thought of,and there's just so much opportunity to do that in this kind of rule of thiskind of company it. So it's interesting- and you mentioned fast a couple times,and you know i start to think about the purl rages of stas outside of softwareand tack and now evolving into much more traditional industries andtraditional businesses. Do you think that there's a way fast as copple tobuy and sell is, is really transforming the need for this revons role or whatworld do you think stas plays in in sort of being so hot right? Now i got,i think there is a need- and i think, there's a lot that transferring fromfrom saz one thing i noticed, as you know, when i was transitioning out of dimor over to thediscover an zu men fo, is that they were looking for continuoussubscription based revenue streams through their advanced products. But iwas working on a lot of the development of a tonos vehicle or trick vehicle andadvance dyster and a lot of those offer subscription services and an atable tomonetize more the customer relationship and the continuing service. But beyondthat, i think you know so much. A traditional selling has just been thehand shaking and the golf courses- and i think, they're just been such astrong demonstration of a more efficient way to sell and one ass, thatis, light and loved by the customer andit's very efficient, and so i think, because of that proven success more andmore want to now adopt these tools. I talk. I've actually done a lot ofsessions with leaders around kind of the coved time about how do itransition my field, sales team? How do i introduce you know some transition,my enterprise on prime sellers, to this zoom video sales thing, and what's thisgong thing, and what's this is outrage toole guys you're talking about it'sjust there's a higher level, satisfaction, there's a higher level ofproductivity and- and i think ultimately, it's hard to deny thatsuccess brought it something that top of minefrom sure everybody listening and we're all kind of trying to figure out how tobrock it. Where do you think settling goes right? Is it is it are? We are weall in a public cabin remote world. A real going back is a highbred like asyou're thinking about optimize your stack and an you program, your cellarsand go to market individuals. One way now the world changing, and i was in anairport for the last two weeks- and i was like oh my god, the world is back,and so, where do we land like? How? How are you thinking about your your go tomarket tack, how people are going to gag you of what they want out of belike? Where is your head out of that in that with that reopenings got yeah? Ithink about it in to way i think the first is is digital selling, and then ithink, there's kind of the remoter topic, and i don't think that they arealways paired and they don't think they're always mutually exclusive toone another, the digital selling door, and have i mentioned this that ournings call you know he's as by an analyst about this, this kind oftransformation to a digital selling world. I don't think that ever goesback. That's a one way door because it...

...adds to the process. It adds to theexperience it as efficiency, and i think now that those gains have beenexperienced. There is no going back on that front. I think when we talk aboutremote work and hybrid work, i think that will be an eva, continuedevolution and i think there will be some step back into the office and- andi don't pretend to have the right answer, because you know i've been inback in the office, i'm in the office now and the human interaction andseeing people in person and get me interact with them and buildrelationship is immensely valuable. So i think at a minimum there there needsto be some establishing a relationship and- and i am a fan of bringing peopletogether physically. I don't think, though, that the fiveday work model requiring everyone to be collocated. That's also not the rightanswer, and so i think over time. What i want to prevent is that every youknow the mental health side of being ice inisolation being at home by yourself. It's very real, and so i think we'regoing to be constantly finding what the right balance is, and i leave it topeople smarter than me to find that right balance. But thereis this pollen tug of productivity, of human relationship as psychology mentalhealth at i think we should alwus be aware of, and and as we kind ofprogress through life and work define what works best for us and our changeyeah. I think that's such a that's awful response. Scott, thank you, and i know that the mental health topic is top of mind for a lot of people rightnow and the isolation has been really troubling and but on the other hand, iwas actually speaking with one of our board members, the other day who saidthat he's actually never been better. He lost ten pounds, he's working outevery day, he's getting healthy meals with his family he's getting morefollowing time. So i think it's going to be a has been to say for many of uswho have re priorities are ourselves and our wellness to you knowimmediately get back onto the that drone of constant, punishing businesstravel and owe you know you know what that's like i was. I was you know every week prior to this andas i step back and realize how productive i've been, i will be a lot more thoughtful beforei agree to go out the road, so i tend to say, wall see on si meetings withteams come together were you're, bringing remote folks together morefrequently where you have these inderstry events, where we reallymissed that time. Together, scott, where you get you know, venator andpractitioners and technology leaders and thought layerstogether. I think the one to one of the sales or the selling model were to bedoing at least stating per cent of that promote or digitally, and i do think we certainly will have that hybrid moment where you have to go on the side,but i think it will really be a the desire, the the bine committing in thebuying groups versus you know. We have to push towards those manic and- and ilike the way, thout separated digital selling and remote work. I think you'reabsolutely right. Those are two different things and they can co existright and to mary's point and your point: digital selling is the futureand i'm going to bring it back like the buyer, is more impatient and moreintelligent and what i've learned? Probably you are in scotland amount ofe people on potaters. Like i don't want information, i want criticalinformation. I want to give it to me. I want to get out because i have the befive more zoom calls, and i don't have time for like manor, vendor wiho andyou that's the importance of data and pulling information and being preparedand leveraging and harnessing datas never been more important in thisdigital sales economy and in but zoom in pot like this is what you did right:you're in the business of selling this data dna. So how have you seen theworld of all right? I mean people probably coming here in scott, like howare you using data? What are you doing? How assuming bowl evergin like howabout you seen the evolution of data and the gun market operation? I thinkit's been amazing and i i feel like i spend probably at leastfive to six hours a week with our customers talking about how we'releveraging data and how they can evolve their good to market, and i think it'sa spectrum. We live kind of in the enterprise experimentation side, wherewe're leveraging snowflake and using machine learning and really complexkind of customer three and sixty dicta models to to do really kind offascinating things as scale. We are, you know, serialsorganizations, something like a thousand people and so the littlethings matter at that scale, but i'm also having discussions with folks whoare just building their organization and wanting to start to automatalsequences or just wanting to understand how to leverage our data and list forpower diales and- and so i i think it...

...truly is an evolutionary journey. Asyou know, folks, progress, i'm actually going to this pig with mike, were fromg to on that kind of same evolution of like text tack through that through thelife cycle, and i think it's a challenge to have the right answer ofkind of how you progress and you augment your text back in solution. Buti think that's part of what i really enjoy is like we hit on it really early.So many people have been supportive of me and teaching me what's. The nextkind of you know thing and go to market, and so you know i'm able to give back alittle bit of productivity or some of my learnings that i've fought and loston and and give that advice to others. It's really super useful and with thatascot m, i'm sure the the listening base of like what are your big talk toor three lessons and data management right. So if i'm starting and i want toget a ride and not not make the mistakes that all of us made back, thenw what w? U those not get t be, i'm biased, because i work for in a largestdata company, but i do think having really strong master data managementand and data clelies and did a hygiene is foundational so for us, i'm using zoomin for in this case, to identifyand tagle of my data across all my systems as primary keys, and i'mnesting all that data together and then using kind of all the techno, graphics,pomorani and tend all the employee count data. You know to create thisrichness of information and it makes everything kind of better throughout,and so i think when you use me or some other, i think, having really strongdata practices and hiring folks who can help you do master data management toclean up your data and to have a richness. There is going to be reallyimportant foundation, and you know whatever tool is then receiving thatdata is going to have a better outcome. So if you have cleaner phone numbersand clean our emails, you're going to have better response, rat and open rate,because people are actually going to get your email you're on, have betterdeliberait because you're not sending bound. You know emails in the same vein.If i am tying the wrong customer accounts to the wrong accounts, i'mgoing to be doing double prospecting and really clunky things that look veryunprofessional. So i think, as you up your game, just having the data qualitybetter and better is going to make all the automation better all the tools andthat i'll come better as well. And it's got a love that now now you have theworld right. You have your sales team. You got your ops team, you got cst ps,you got support. You got marketing and verne like i sometimes have your owndefinition of what dat am i using and how do you? How do you saner everyone,a one master date of morlik? How did you get the the dictionary your biblewritten on that and get everyone on that same page yeah? I think the thatevolves in time. So the easy answer out front- i think, is you know if you useyour carm as the source of truths and integrate back in a great everythinginto that that acts is a natural defense mechanism for thingsproliferating in n out a control way. I think you know using a data tool toidentify all the data and stitch together. I think once you grow andyou're starting to then in a grate, erted and other kind of third partydata resources or other models. I think then, using more advanced, a dictionary toolsand build like right now for our analytics use. We are building out starschemes that represent karas the business to can be consumed in a lydisprocesses, and those are really well codified, using structural diagrams andreally professional de engineering tools, and i think it'sreally about where you're at in your life cycle a lot of big companies sillforce, you think about donkey, sign they're, doing these kind of reallycomplicated things: dell, oracle, whatever it's not probably right for afifty million ab company or our company to be building this massive dataarchitecture. There's a lot you can in cram before you kind of go beyond yeah.I really love hearing the tick about this and talk about it in such asystematic ways got because one of the things that was always so frustratingto you and i as an analyst- is that everybody wants great data, but no onewants to actually sit down and do the work, and so you thought about it andyou have a process and there's there's a lot cal series of events that needsto happen, and it really isn't mysterious. If you do the hard work, ifyou don't do the hard work is really difficult. I think the other thingthat's changing rapidly is that now we now have automatical right back fromall of these interactions, that we have across aonusual experience between bis and sellers, and so that's starting tobecome extraordinarily exciting, as we can capture and automatically get thatthing out to the seram, because no sales people actually ever reallyuse siam, and so now now we can leave probyn. That problem, which i thinkit's super super exciting. It will be...

...unpopular with my sills horse friends,but i do think that the fut tue sales actually live outside of c rm and carmstarts to play a different role: uiu x, of tools like sales horse. I think youhave to make certain design trade off to be what sales force is, and i thinkyou can be all things to all people and have all of the robust architecture,and so i do think sales, forest and crni become more of a system of recordand a platform of automation, with a more tools go to market platformecosystem on top that's much more user friendly, and i love it. You saidbecause i to me it's funny to think about, but i think i think a lot aboutthis kind of like duality of like nature versus the process, and if yourbrain was like thirty five tools like all trying to like do their own thingand have over lab, it gets really confute. You know it wouldn't work verywell, but it's all adopted and there's kind of a commonality of connectionsand the way things are processed in great integrations that allow you tofunction, and so in time we need the deep memory and we need stories wherewe need all this interconnected process and and right now, people are doingwildly creative things to create that network by taking it off line to snowflake, doing really crazy mules, soft and kind of dull boomy type integration,but if it all truly nested together in a common way that was really powerfuland simplistic. I think that's kind of where the future go to market, becausethis teends out yeah. I totally agree with you and just a little piece ofadvice: don't worry about hissing of banion over there. I used to do itevery other day and us fine, but you know very interesting to hear you hearyour thought process around the future of ceram, which is really consistentwith how i'm looking at it as well. Let's the conversation a little bit back to to robs and- and i like to justcock a little bit about execution and he could report to what's the make upof our team, what it look like, we may have a variety of different listenerswho are on a different states of this journey here, scott, so we've loved totap into some of your experience and expertise around for sort of thestructure and for so as within your organization yeah. I think that i thinkit's great so far. Work has reported up into the cro. He's now been moved intothe coo and is covering a broader swatty organization, marketing itoperations. So ultimately we roll into the the coo or- and i think that'sreally as really powerful, because he has sales marketing and the it texttack. And so it's all of the things that revenue operations cares about andhas resources to go and attack my specific org. He differs from a lot of the revor out there in that,i'm not specifically caring for enablement and i'm not specificallycaring for forecasting and a lot of the financial modeling. All of my processesroll up to that- and ultimately i am heavily in agrade in that, but reallymy my revocet is sills fort ad man, sills worstengineering. We have scrimmagers leading agile teams, a productmanagement team, that's treating each area as as an external customer andthen navigating their use case and carrying for their process and actingas process engineers. We have dating an a lydicae engineering data, science and,and so ultimately, it's really a development in data org and and doing alot of heavy process engineering and so scot that that's from metis is thatthat picks my interest in the hardest part of rebot right whereever looks atyou. They want the inside ay want you again tomorrow and you have amazingmodels. You come out with recommendations. I love that you call aprosin engineering, because how do you do process re engineering? I let's sayyou learn and you have in you morally have this learning. How do you getpeople to adopt and adapt and change like a what strategetic work? Were youthere yea? And so i think this is it's a nice tie that in to a lot of a lot ofthe things that i did so right before i left dim lair. I was working on acorporate wide initiative and i was flying to all these locations rolled bydoing like workshops in germany do by on process re engineering, and we useda methodology around design, thinking and and doing lean workshops that iactually have carried over and adopted. So when we attack a given process, weactually it's it's a machine now and there's a lot of folks trained to herhow to do it so we come in. We say we won't want to attack the customerjourney, a d and the unboarding and integrations process, and so we do fullprocess inventories of all of the various processes that touch this. Andthen we go through all of those we...

...inventory and we do detailed process,mapping and lucid chart and everyone's been taught to do detailed, walk,throughs of the entire swim lane to understand the state holders and theflow we then go in and we do kaisa sessions where we do. We put kisenburst across the entire process, mat and we start to ida and solution aroundthe broken parts of the process, and we have this scale. We called the wild tomiles yale and i encourage people to have crazy wild ideas like what, if wejust didn't, do this any more. What if we completely did something else, whatwe albore this or what? If we took a whole different approach and then werank all those ideas and we start to talk about how those could be executed,and then we use an effort, an impact matrix to come out with what are thelowest effort highest impact items, and then we create a work, tick list, thewe integrated back into our scrum development cycle, and then we rearchitect the processes based on these kind of ideations that we've had,including all the state holders and kind of continue to prove my agentsthat live in our organization. So we've done this quite a bit. We did this likeon an smv automation, side for customer the rear, contecta the customer journey.We re imagined, lead flow. This way, i s how to start the enterprise with teamselling. All this whole methodology extensible across all these differentprocesses, because if you emitted a trunk plant, you emitted a like abusiness process and the doby sales office of dime or you amat, thecustomer success department of zumeit. It's the same, formulate process andyou're engaging the smart people using instead of commonly understood toolsand methodologies to arrive at this outcome that is banked, wild mild, i'mso going to rip that of scott that i, that is awesome. It's a question.Obviously, you've had a lifetime in being in an backing. Six, even youyou've been there denight you're, bringing those not that knowledge andthought process into what you're doing with process or engineering. What about?What about? For our first time, red both leader right he's going to betackling this problem like? Where do they start like? What do they read? Howdo they learn like? Where would you recommend them begining, this curit ofmaturity that you've gone through and driving with true change, manage yeah?I think i think, there's a couple ofrecommendations, so one would be if you haven't already get some core metricson your funnel just start from the top of the funnel. What's your leads giveyour opportunities, your wins, your losses and then the the commenceconversion rates and start to then understand in that process where you'reperforming well. Where were not performing well, and that's going toguide you because the first thing you need to do is say: what's broken:what's not working? Where am i bottle neck in my process? What's what's notfunctioning? Well, i think you could use an. I total evidence of somethingsticks out, but i do think starting to instrument and measure the process isgoing to give you a foundation. If you talk about six sigma, it's all rooted-and you have to be able to the dhole domat process- is like a define measure.All of this. You can't do it unless you have this definition, measure phase, soi think just instrument and starting to collect data. It doesn't need to becrazy. Fancy. I think it's you can instrument it and then i think justdoing some some when you, when you define and look at a given process thatis not optimal, just start to process. My about like,like i mentioned, and i think there are lots of tools on process mapping orcontinues improvement. I think there's probably some learning on how to facilitateeffective workshops that someone could do. There's tools, like you know, like pampatar product projectsuccessfully. I don't know you need all of that necessarily, but just a littlebit to see a little bit of a process management product, a excuse me projectmanagement will get you a long way, but then just start to document out theprocess and and even with without fail. I think it was like. Oh i i just writon the process we'm not going to know how to fix it, because i'm not likegifted in this whole thing without a doubt when you get the process writtenout, i've never had it work where we, where we document the process andeveryone's like. Oh yeah, that's perfect! That break you exactly everytime. You know that and that we're nailing that there's always somethingwhere you go. I didn't even know you guys were doing that. I don't even usethat in the process. It's like you're spending three hours doing thattransformation on this excel phile. We don't even use that we scrap that wholetap. You know like those are the kinds of things where i think like lead flowmarketing is bringing the lead in there and reaching it they're doing thesethings. The str are getting it. This cers might not use half of whatmarketing is doing with the leases, not using half that data, or they don'teven know what exists, and then the sers are doing all this collection andqualification and they never even sees it, and so like there're, justthreating of data and communication...

...across these processes. But that'sreally where i would start is a start to understand your process measure itand then, as you as you collect these different measurements, it sets normsin your business. So i mean for you guys on the outreach side, they're verykey conversion, rags volumes that you know they move over time. As youaccelerate as you grow as you get more efficient and they start to shift, butthere's always you know, as you turn those out, you can watch theprogression if you tweak it so that you route less leads but higher quality.You should see this systemic change. That's one of the things that i love inmy job now is. Is i'm one of the people at organization who knows the systemand can watch the systematic change? So if i'm pushed down leads but but andfilter for quality, i should then be able to see demos come down. Conversionof those go complete on go up. My opportunities go up because i'm pushingbetter leads my win rage to go up and my cvstoms, and so i can see all thosesystemic effects float through from that one change. I may because it'sinstrumented, so i spoke a lot better, but then you know just startingstarting to dive into that. That's that's the first piece, one of thebiggest things is for all to do is to take you know, sort of even very simplein narrow tweaks, but apply them a scale, and when you ply things thatscale, you can see that transformation all change. So it's e talking this guy,i mean first of all, i'm like so impressed with you. I mean you know somuch about data business process. Technology i's got problem solvingskills. One of the things you know i thinkabout when i think about tensor is there's the twitter to the lizards,whether that's the technology landscape or even it rules within organizationsand right now. I think that robots, a winning roll right you've got a veryhigh visibility into the c suite. You spoke about your interview process withhenry you've got a doatie support from your ceo. What are some of the softerskills that you think some of your re peers outside of the organizationsshould he think about it s hard to work on, because i have to believe there's.If not, everyone may be well welcoming on this role. I think that's anevolution as well and you have to earn trust when you, when you take stilesoperations, the it work marketing operations customer operations. What that does is give you a massivestake, holder base of people who are dependent on you for their livelihoodand their outcome, and so there's definitely an immense amount ofresponsibility to them personally and and professionally to deliver and totake their needs seriously and to understand an empathize with thestruggles that they're facing them. So, for me, it's a lot of hard to heartsand indeed conversations with our sales leadership, our customer successleadership and being able to float between technical data topic and it in a really hard customer issue to howto we invest route leagues to how do we optimize the the deck for pinching andthen how do we innovate a new product and- and so i think, being able to tohave some empathy- and i won't pretend to be the world's greatest at this- i'mpretty direct and mission driven and what i do, but i think i'm well alignedwith what our sales leaders care about, and that also comes from the croco,whoever you report into that. They have a common lens and focus for thebusiness that everyone's kind of aimed in that same way- and i think chris heis, he was our vp of operations before i started and taught me quite a bit ofwhat i know and he's now. In that leadership rule one thing he's reallygood at doing is unifying us all toward a common goal and target of what weshould be focusing on henry. In the same vein, like there's a very clearvision of where we're going, and so with that, i think we're able tonavigate but but there's hard times i mean there's again, if you don't deliver or somethings, not optimize or there's capacity, constraints and priait, allthat requires navigating and some tact and ability to have conversations andwork together. But i think that's where i think some more technical folks mightstruggle is having those personal conversations and being able toempathize well yeah. I thank you for service servicing that because i thinkit's really really important, it be comes for more important as you move upand the organization and and continue to exert more influence, so i knowwe're kind of coming to the end of the session. I just sort of wan quick question. What does rabona lookfor you like for you, and you know how are you thinking about getting there? Ithink. Ultimately, i don't know that. There's a final state. I hope i hopethat there's not a final state, because it would make my job very boring if weever actually arrive at that.

A perfect em poi, but i think that,having really you know really smooth processprioritization having decentralized principles and capabilities of robotsthroughout the organization, everyone should be a steward of processexcellence. Everyone should be a steward of digital transformation andthe more and more that i work here, the more i see our director of cx becominga champion of continuous improvement being able to go and do that in hisarea. And so i think, if we're doing, rebuts right were fundamentallytransforming the business and the people in the business to drive theirown innovation and process. And so we look different in that. We control,what's what's in our house, but we're a steward of broad change that allowsorganizations at large and individuals to succeed well beyond the scope of theprojects that we choose to take on internally, and so i think it becomes ahub and a center of excellence. We do the sales ops piece in the re, opspiece, but but there's kind of a broader calling to move moveorganization for or thing cot with that. Thank you so much for changing it upand actually going mile to wild with us today, and all things revolves dataprocess, re engineering i have a page o now in turte listeners- are reallyenjoyed them. A lot of takeaways appreciate your time and look forwardto talking again here in the ner future as well. Yeah. Thank you for an arisiawas great. Thank you for listening to the revenueinnovators, podcast o doing here. Please leave us a five star rating anda shining review. If you re yourself and you're, not cato sales, tacent singout go as acerca member ask questions, get fast answers in your experiences. Itwentier professionals, who then your own organization e back on this podcastevery other week to learn from the osmose, so that was it the first episode of therevenue, innovators podcast. We were so excited about it. It's going to beremember it's every other wednesday, remember about our launch countest. Ifyou leave a five star rating in review for the podcast and to screen shot tomarketing it, sales hackea will send you a five dollar starbucks gifts card,so listen and enjoy it subscribe. Let us send you some coffee before we signoff. Of course, we need to think our sponsors. Of course it's outreachoutraces. The number one sales engagement platform check out howoutreach does out reach had to outreach at io for slash on our race to see whatthey've got going on. Also, thanks to pavilion, formerly known as revenue,collective unlock, your professional potential with a pavilion membership goto join pavillion to learn more and apply, and finally thanks the salesnavigator and lengthen. Of course, today's virtual selling environmentdemands a new kind of approach. Prioritize the buyer above all elserequest o free demo for linton sales navigator at business, not linkin forit lash sales dash solutions. You can reach me lincolm forts last the word inforts last name of jacobs, mary, an harish. Thank you so much any partingwords of wisdom. Hurich will go to you first frank, an no, no, trulyappreciate being able to lever address giles a or podcast for an augural,looking forward to continuing the conversation on the red name, innovator,channel, awesome, mary, how about you yeah thanks, everyone for joining usand stay in touch with arishee vale on social direct message, as let us knowif you have ideas around how we can continue to prove the podcast and alsolet us know if you want to be a featured guest. We're always lookingforward to talking to folks were out there innovating and breaking glass.Awesome! We'll talk to you next time! Folks,...

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