The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

167. Announcing: Revenue Innovators Podcast

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Sam Jacobs talks with Mary Shea and Harish M about the newest podcast by Outreach, Revenue Innovators.

You'll also get a first look at one of the first episodes of Revenue Innovators with Scott Sutton.

If you leave a 5-star review and rating for Revenue Innovators, please send a screenshot to marketing@saleshacker.com and we’ll send you a $5 Starbucks gift card.

Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcometo the sales hacker podcast. Today on the show we've got a really excitingepisode because we've got a different podcast. We're actually bringing you the very firstepisode that salesacker is launching called the revenue innovators podcast, and the hosts arewith me on the line and we're going to talk to them all about what'sgoing to happen with the revenue innovators podcast, why they started it with. Thetwo hosts are Mary Shay and HRISH Mohan, and I'll give them anopportunity to introduce themselves. But so we're really excited to bring this to youbecause it is the very first episode of this brand new podcast and we've gotactually contest that will tell you about right before we get into it. Now, before we get there, we do have sponsors. We do have wedo have to thank our sponsors because they help us put food on the table. So let me tell you about them. The first, of course, isoutreach. Outreach has been a longtime sponsor of this podcast and I'm sureoutreach will be a supporter of the revenue innovators podcast. They just launched anew way to learn. Outreach on outreach is the place to learn how outreach. Well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead inrecord time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also seehow outreach runs account Basse, plays, manages reps and so much more,using their very own sales engagement platform, everything backed up by data pult frumoutreach processes and the customer base. When you're done, you'll be able todo it as well as they do. Head to outreach out io forward slashon outreach to see what they've got going on the the second sponsor, asalways, is pavilion, formally known as revenue collective. Pavilion is the keyto getting more out of your career. Our private membership connects you with anetwork of thousands of like minded peers and resources where you can tap into leadershipopportunities, training, mentorship and other services made for high growth leaders like you. Unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Leaders at every stage canget started today at join Pavilioncom. And finally, our sponsor is linkedin.Today's virtual selling environment demands a new kind of approach, one that prioritizes thebuyer above all else. As the world's largest professional network with over seven hundredand twenty two million members, Linkedin is the only place where buyers and sellersconnect, share and drive success for each other. Every day. Find newways to connect with your bias virtually with linked in sales and have learn moreor request a free demo at business dot linkedincom. Forward sales solutions now,Mary and Hurrish, welcome and thank you so much for joining us and forlaunching the revenue innovators podcast. Mary, you are the global innovation evangelisted outreach, and Hurrish, you are the svp of revenue excellence and operations, alsoat outreach. Welcome to welcome to our introductory show. Well, thank you, Sam. Thanks so much. It's great to be here. We're excitedto have you. So let Mary, why don't we start just what iswhat our revenue in innovators? Tell us what inspired the name. Tell uswhat we can expect when we listen to the show out yeah, thanks forasking. So you know, as we come out of this global pandemic,I've been thinking a lot and writing quite a bit about the fact that we'rein the midst of some pretty significant societal and business transformation coupled with massive technologicalinnovation. As you start to think about your own world, whether it's inthe personal side or on the work, work side. I know people aretrying to prioritize health and wellbeing and think about new collaboration models and figuring out, you know, the role that automation and AI is going to have inour lives. And I just started to think about business models, sales models, sales methods really transforming and using this I think this period as we getback out into the world for very, very significant innovation, and so wewanted to create a podcast that was designed for leaders in the revenue world whoare innovating and finding new ways to go to market, new ways to putthe buyer at the center of all their strategies, who are completely arming theirgo to market teams with top tier sales technologies. And these are folks thatwe think over indexes on data of versus sort of the art of leading andselling. It's so Harrish and I were kicking this around for a while andwe had some other really creative folks working with us and we came up withthe title love it Harrish and when what first of all, your title isstp of Revenue Excellence and operations. Does that tell us more about that,but also tell us so what are the some of the big topics you're excitedto cover on the podcast? Yeah, no, no thanks, and yeah, I'm marrying. I have the only person I wroach has a fancier titlethan me. But now it's a great point in the reason we call itrevenue excellence in operations is, you know, and the why I'm actually passionate abouthaving you know, you launching this podcast with Mary is red bobs kindof been around for a few years now. You know, we percolated. It'skind of go from forming Norman, but if you think about, youknow, the industry, the industry awareness...

...and how people are doing it,it's still very NASAN. A lot of confirmation buys, a lot of peoplestill think about it as sales offs plus right. It's really not breaking thatbarrier, but really redops, because it should be that baseline that owns thecustomer journey and business model end to end and helps you drive innovation, helpsyou drive a data centric approach, helps you be buy or center, andthat's what we call it. Read me excellence and operations, because it's notonly about data and offs but it's about execution excellence as well and taking thatdata driving execution. And that's part of what we expect the redne innovator todo right. And a red me innovator is not just a rep or asales manager. A ready innovator happens across all parts of the revenue or butreally has a data centricity, buyers centricity, on n channel approach to a customerjourney and and that's what we're trying to build and that's the conversation wewant to have the market. We want to get away more controvation buys andtalk about what need things people are doing, maybe outside a tech that we canall benefit one. Well, let's let me ask each of you onemore questions and then we'll dive into the episode. But hurries to that point. If, if we're thinking about revenue innovation, what are some of thewhat are you hearing out there in the market as some examples of what peopleare doing from an innovation perspective to bring new revenue strategies that are focused onby ECENTRICITY and data centricity? Yeah, absolutely right. I mean, andyou know what what's up at one of the episodes. But we have revenueleaders room came from a supply chain background, right, which I think leads upto first episode where they're looking at well, how do we use dataand supply chain? How do we do a podcasting supply Shi how do wehow do we meet the customer where they were? How do we learn fromcustomer usage habits to pull back into it, into the customer journey? So that'sone example. If you look at consumer CPG and how they target customersand learn and build a data model around your customer three hundred and sixty andall your behaviors, and every time I open you know, I open mycomputer, I'm like yeah, you know what, I haven't had trick fillyou in a while. How do they read my mind? Right? Imean what have you. That's should come to software, right, and especiallywhere your buyers more intelligent, your buyers in patient. We're used to doingzoom thirty minute conversations. I want to get a conversation where I had valuelike that. Data Transit centricity happening outside. Attack is now comminent attack and we'restarting to see and talk to some of the innovators are that are goingto be launching about and marry. You probably have a platter of examples fromyour perspective. Yeah, absolutely, thanks, Harry Shaving. We want to talkto leaders who are out there breaking glass, who are finding new waysto arm their selling organization, and we also want to talk to companies,you know, folks that are companies of all shames in the sizes. Asher rich mentioned, we learn a lot from the tech industry and services,but we also want to talk to some larger traditional businesses, maybe even somethat are considered legacy, whether they're packaging or, you know, beverage companiesor other types of retailers who deal with massive quantities of data and have foundways to be really buyer centric in terms of how they go to market.So we're super excited and looking forward to learning a lot and interviewing some reallyexciting leaders out there in the marketplace. It's we're all incredibly excited. Lastquestion for you, Mary. WHO's the ideal audience for this? Who needsto pay attention to this podcast? If folks are out there listening and youreally want to make sure that there's a certain group of people that tune inevery Wednesday, when the show or every other Wednesday, who is in yourmind, sure it's, you know, your most ambitious folks on the revenuea team. So, as Hoy said, certainly we're interviewing, you know,ce suite executives, very senior level executives, but we're also looking atdirector levels and other folks who are of the commers. So I really thinkit's anyone who is really interested in, you know, building long term relationships, taking a digital first approach, with a data mindset, who wants tocontinue to learn and grow in their career. So it can be, you know, that top revenue officer, it can be someone in charge of revolvesor, even more traditionally, sales operations, and even your individual contributors who arelooking to really get an edge as it relates to going to market withmore of the science rather than the art. I love it. Well, we'relet's. I'm excited for it and thank you so much for joining usas an introduction on the show and sharing a bit about it again. It'scalled revenue innovators. For folks that are out there, you can find iton all of your favorite platforms. Every other Wednesday. Were actually about tolisten to the very first episode featuring Mary Harrish and their guest right now.Before we jump into it, I want to let you know a about alittle launch contest that's happening in support of revenue innovators. If you leave afive star rating and review for the PODCAST,...

...send a screenshot of it to marketingat sales hackercom and will send you a five dollar stop starbucks Gift Card, which should get you most of a coffee, we hope. It dependson what's happening with inflation at starbucks, but we will send you a fivedollar stock Lex Gift Card. Just send a screenshot of your five star ratingand review to marketing at sales haccercom. So listen and enjoy hits, subscribeand let us send you some coffee. Now let's listen today's very first episodeof Revenue Innovators. Welcome to the revenue innovators, the podcast powered by outreach. Will we skip the usual podcast guests and goes straight to the source oftrue revenue innovation. Will Interview Mad Scientists, revenue distructors from all kinds of surprisingindustries. That's right. Something in common these are leader look into thefuture and not the past, their boats, who are breaking glass in their goto market organizations and not just getting through the day. We're your hosts. I'm Mary Shay, Global Innovation Evangelist that outreach, and I'm small,senior vice president bringing excellent in operation, also at a reach we see hereevery as a week, and we promised to keep it spicy for you.Let's jump in. Welcome back everyone. Mary Shay here, Global Innovation EvangelistWithout Rache, along with my colleague Harry Schmallan, our SPP of revels andstrategy, we're here today speaking with Scott Sutton from Zoom Info. So,Scott, thank you so much for joining us for through the Ab you onthe show and I wonder if you would spend just a few moments telling theaudience a little bit about what you do at Cei and how you typically spendyour days. That's awesome. Thank you both, Mary and a Reish forhaving me. I'm the VP of revenue operations as Zoom Info, and soyou know, day today I spend most of my time focusing on our goto market operations. are going to market text stack and really helping to craftand engineer, you know, we consider to be a world class go tomarket process here. So evolutionary journey. I where a lot of hats,but I think that's part of the fun that we all send up for.Awesome Wall won't thank you's got. One of the reasons I was super excited, of the many reasons to get you on on the show, was yourbackground. Writing and we talked a lot of revenue operations professionals and you lookat where they got they started. It starts from the traditional like operation,sales offs and bills up that. But that's not you and I think alot. I think a lot of where you came from, and I'm sadurbaysin the world of making trucks and starting with actual manufacturing and bring those principlesin with would want to get a little bit more to background of how yougot started in option and how you found your way to redney operations. Itis interesting and I look back and I reflect and you know, we allkind of look at our own development through life and how we arrived over atand and probably wouldn't do it a different way, but it's always kind ofthe serendipitous journey. So I actually started out in supply chain and even gettinginto supply chain was was serendipity. I had a professor, Leeb address,who is transformative. He's spent hours talking with me after class and talking aboutlogistics and transportation and how to build world class supply chains and really was,you know, fostered that creative side and trying to solve problems and it wassomething where there was a huge need in the market and it was it wasapplicable. So dove in there and ended up studying. He actually laided memy first job out of school with Daimler doing supply and logistics. And whenI when I exited from from school, it was actually in two thousand andtwo thousand and nine, right amidst the real estate crash and the financial crisis, and so it was a really tough time and I remember, you know, we shut down a factory, we late, you know, lit offquite a few people, we should down a whole brand and one of myearly jobs was going around and and trying to do with these bankruptcies and so, you know, kind of coming through that whole supply chain Lens. Ithink the core tenets of what I learned throughout that is how to design worldclass processes. We're really big in the toilet production system and and I spendtime in Mexico helping build out a new Semitra factory and and so a lotof those different applications of creative problem solving I will puzzles my whole life.Fun fact is that I used to do rubex cue competitively, you know,and it was just, you know, playing chess or poker. Those arethe kinds of things that were always the you know, trying to solve problemwas in a unique way. Yeah, that's awesome, but I think youknow that curiosity, the learning, the trying to adapt a skill set toa new a new challenge has been something that I've carried with me my wholelife. And and and I found zoom info all sort of serendipity. Itwas actually via an instagram post from someone my gym who said I work atthis amazing company. It's doing big things. Discover or at the time you shouldcome on down and I met with...

Henry, I met with Chris Hayesfill up and we spent, you know, a few months going back and forthon what's the right role, what's right job. I joined right beforethe acquisition of Zoom Info and you know, they took a big chance on meand that provided amazing mentorship. But I brought that that data driven kindof supply chain to nacity with me and under their stewardship, learned a lotvery quickly how to run this ass business, how to run and build a greatgo to market engine, and since then it's it's been something really funthat we've done together and now kind of I'm helping to accelerate beyond that visionwhile they start to focus on bigger, bigger challenges and other new areas ofthe business. That's so fascinating. Scot there said a couple of different areasthat I find personally really interesting. One is a serendipitous aspect of finding ajob. I think the best jobs that I've ever had have been where I'vekind of found myself at the right time at the right place. So Iwas willing to take that jump, that leap and take a big risk.What's really interesting to me, you'll stan anticipated my next question and I knowwe haven't even talked about this in previous conversations. I really wanted to askyou did you have to talk your way into the job and as infold becauseyou know, your background and your qualifications were so different from what you knowexecutives might hire for rebops or go to market leadership role, and yet atthe same time what you brought to the table seemed to be transformative to thecompany. So we're your bosses sort of open to your background, or doyou have to do a lot of convincing? Yeah, there was definitely a discussionthat happened and I think my journey to is is kind of evolutionary andI think, you know, my own growth and development and my life waswas kind of seeking progression and also seeking something that was the right fit forwhat I wanted to accomplish. And so Diamler, you know, they're verywell established company, been around since even the eighteen hundreds or the first automobilemanufacture. Hundred Twenty five years in the making, and but a lot ofthat is very big company dynamics, kind of slower growth, and I've alwaysbeen into the text scene. I'm the guy with the newest gadget and andso as I was going through and progressing, I actually was in finance, Iwas in for Kurement. I tried a lot of different things to helpround out the skill set. But there's a point where I said, youknow, I was still a diamler and I said, what do I reallywant to be accomplishing in my career and where do I think the markets areprogressing? And I knew that it was in software, particularly softwarees of service. I knew it was in a smaller company where I could get a broaderexperience across the entire business. And so I actually ended up stumbling upon aprogram through Harvard that taught dating analytics and machine learning and it was a pilotprogram that was a combination of the engineering school, Computer Science School as wellas the business school, and so I spent two years doing that and Ithink what was compelling is I had some of these like rigger and chops throughthat work. And at the time I was leading a dating analytics company ordepartment at that company, but also had supply to you and I talk toHenry, they're like, Huh Yeah, supply chain guy, you know datinganalytics, solving tough problems. We could use you and and so we originallystarted talking about a customer analytics position and kind of working in that lane andeventually it came more in this operational role, leading corporate initiatives, big major programsthat the company was trying to execute against and it just happened to bethe acquisition of zoominfo. So I think it was that project management, theability to quickly learn and adapt, leverage data and move people in the rightdirection that that was compelling. But there was definitely a big conversation prior.It lasted about six months that I didn't know if it was going to happenor not, but really really excited that it didn't. It's been. Honestly, it's been the biggest, biggest positive step of my career was joining theseguys and what there, what they're accomplishing here. Such a such a great, great story and I anticipated that. It wasn't a short conversation. Sothat's six months for everybody to come to agreements there, but what a wonderfulstory. I also think, you know, my curve started in musicology and that'sthe musicology and I have a Ph d and do a lot of researchand it's funny, you know, when you start to think about sales andsales tag there's actually quite a lot of connection between how you use both yourright braid and your left brace. So I think you know you bring tothe table could be so interesting in this particular role. So really great tohear your background. Thank you, Mary. Maybe that's how we get along sowell. I start off as an engineer. So there you go.We got the get the perfect music and engineer and it's got one of thethings we talked about, which you know, really good resonates. We think aboutredney innovators and Conso of people redefining go to market strategies or, youknow what, the bread bobs role did not start in tech like we lovethat, you know, we kind of...

...place where everything starts in tag andwe built everything, but it didn't write it. It started in retail,it started in supply chain and manufacturing. So and we're now embracing that conceptin the data driven world. Actually, drive back comes and I'm Pierce,I how do you adapt what you did aid din learn to the Revenue OperationsRoll? Like what what is the supply chain of Sass look like to youand how did it like, how did you bring in your learnings at door? Yeah, I think I think it's really good point. And you know, if I think about SASS and and and you know, kind of thisyoung, growing area of business. One thing that they've constantly done is lookfor inspiration from other companies as they're growing and developing it. And one ofthe things I found working for a really large established company is they've got ananswer for everything. They're like, you know, you ask a question,though, like all we thought about that. This is the right answer, andI think with with Sass it's always like, we don't have any answer. Let's look at everything and every you know, whatever is out there.So I find a lot of what I do is is an exploratory research process. So, you know, I was given a software engineering team within revenueoperations and I said, what's the world class way to run this? Idid tons of research on devops and read all the literature on the best waysto do continuous deployment, continus integration, have, you know, automated Qaand test, and I didn't have a frame of reference to define this.So I was looking at the industry, leading folks and reading there's a companyin Portland that puts out the state of devops report and I started to consumethings like this and I think it's that hunger in that research that leads usto define what world class should look like, because we don't have, you know, cookie cutter view on that or preconceived notion, and that's why that'swhat I love to do and that's, you know, I think it's reallya job fit for me is because I want to find the new answer,the the the best solution that's never been thought of and there's just so muchopportunity to do that in this kind of role at this kind of company.So it's interesting. You've mentioned sauce a couple times and, you know,I start to think about the proliferation of Sass outside of software and tack andnow evolving into much more traditional industries and traditional businesses. Do you think thatthere's a way SASS is hot people to buy and sell, is is reallytransforming the need for this revofs roll or what role do you think Sass playsand in sort of rebofs being so hot right now? Scott, I thinkthere is a need and I think there's a lot that's transferring from from SASS. One thing I noticed, as you know, when I was transitioning outof diaime ler over to discover or consume info, is that they were lookingfor continuous subscription based revenue streams through their advanced products. So I was workingon a lot of the development of autunomous vehicle, electric vehicle and advanced safetysystems and a lot of those offer subscription services and and it ability to monetizemore the customer relationship and the continuing service. But beyond that, I think,you know, so much of traditional selling has just been the handshaking andthe golf course is and I think there's just been such a strong demonstration ofa more efficient way to sell and one that's that is light and loved bythe customer and it's very efficient. And so I think because of that provensuccess, more and more want to now adubt these tools I talked I've actuallydone a lot of sessions with leaders around kind of the covid time about howdo I transition my field sales team, how do I tradution? You know, some transition my enterprise on prem sellers to this zoom video sales thing andwhat's this Gong thing? And what's was this outreach tool you guys are talkingabout? It's just there's a higher level satisfaction, there's a higher level ofproductivity and and I think ultimately it's hard to deny that success. You broughtsomething that top of mind from sure everybody listening and we're all kind of kindof figure out how to rocket. Where do you think selling goes? Right? Is it? Is it? Are We? Are we all in apost covid remote world? Are we going back? is a hybrid, likewho was you thinking about optimizing your stack and you programmed your sellers and goto market individuals one way. Now the world changing and I was in anairport the last two weeks and I was like, Oh my God, theworld's back. And so where do we lay? Like how? How areyou thinking about your your go to market stack? How people going to gage? You know what they want out of it? Like where's your head outat that in that with that reopening is good, I think, even intwo ways. I think the first is is digital selling, and then Ithink there's kind of the remote wor topic, and I don't think that they arealways paired and I don't think they're always mutually exclusive to one another.The digital selling door and and how mention is in our earnings call, youknow's asked by an analyst about this, this kind of transformation to a digitalselling world. I don't think that ever goes back. That's the one waydoor because it adds to the process,...

...it adds to the experience, itadds efficiency and I think now that those gains have been experienced, there isno going back on that front. I think when we talk about remote workand hybrid work, I think that will be an evil continued evolution and Ithink there will be some step back into the office. And I don't pretendto have the right answer because you know, I've been back in the office.I'm in the office now, and the human interaction and seeing people inperson and get to interact with them and build relationship is immensely valuable. SoI think at a minimum there there needs to be some establishing a relationship andand I am a fan of bringing people together physically. I don't think,though, that the five day work model requiring everyone to be co located.That's also not the right answer, and so I think over time what Iwant to prevent is that every you know the mental health side of being icein isolation, being at home by yourself. It's very real, and so Ithink we're going to be constantly finding what the right balance is and Ileave it to people smarter than me to find that right balance. But thereis this pollen tug of productivity, of human relationship, of psychology and mentalhealth that I think we should all just be aware of and and, asas we kind of progress through life and work, define what works best forus in our teams. Yeah, I think that's such a software response,Scott. Thank you, and I know the mental health topic is is topof mine. For a lot of people right now in the isolation has beenreally troubling and but on the other hand, I was actually speaking with one ofour board members the other day who said that he's actually never been fitter. He lost ten pounds, he's working out every day, he's getting healthymeals with his family, he's getting more quality time. So I think there'sgoing to be a hesitancy for many of us who have reprioritized our ourselves andour wellness to, you know, immediately get back onto that that drone ofconstant, punishing business travel. I know, Varaci, you know, you knowwhat that's like. I was, I was, you know, everyweek prior to this and as I step back and realize how productive I've been, I will be a lot more thoughtful before I agree to go out onthe road. So I tend to think we'll see on site meetings with teamscome together, where you're bringing remote folks together more frequently, where you'll havethese industry events where we really missed that time together Scott, where you get, you know, vendors and practitioners and technology leaders and thought leaders together.I'd think the one to one sales or the selling model we're going to bedoing at least stating for some of that promoter digitally and I do think wecertainly will have that hybrid moment where you have to go on site, butI think it will really be at the desire of the the vine committee inthe buyer groups versus you know, we have to put towards those Medas andI like the way, though, fully separated digital selling and remote work.I think you're absolute right. There's a two different things and they can coexist. Right and to Mary's point and your point, digital selling is the futureand I'm going to bring it back. Like the buyer is more impatient andmore intelligent, and what I've learned, probably you learn Scott, with theamount of people at Coldbra trying to sell the like. I want information,I want try to go information, I want to give it to me.I want to get out because a thirty five more zoom calls and I don'thave time for like vendor, vendor, who copy. And you know thatthe importance of data and pulling information and being prepared and leveraging and harvesting datasnever been more important in this digital sales economy. And but zoom in forlike. This is what you do right. You're in the business of selling thisdata, DNA. So how would you seen the world of bolved?Right? I mean people are probably company in Scottland. How are you usingdata? What are you doing? How is you we in Foo leveraging likehave a you see, in the evolution of data and the go to marketoperation. I think it's been amazing and I feel like I spend probably atleast five to six hours a week with our customers talking about how we're leveragingdata and how they can evolve their go to market. And I think it'sa spectrum. We live kind of in the enterprise experimentation side, where we'releveraging snowflake and using machine learning and really complex kind of customer three hundred andsixty data models to to do really kind of fascinating things at scale. Weare, you know, serials organization something like a thousand people, and sothe little things matter at that scale. But I'm also having discussions with folkswho are just building their organization, wanting to start to automate email sequences orjust wanting to understand how to leverage our data and list for power dialers andand so I think it truly is an...

...evolutionary journey. As you know,folks progress. I'm actually going to speak with Mike, we are from GTWO, on that kind of same evolution, like text act through the through thelife cycle, and I think it's a challenge to have the right answer ofkind of how you progress and you augment your text act and solution. ButI think that's part of what I really enjoy is like we hit on itreally early. So many people have been supportive of me and teaching me what'sthe next kind of you know thing and go to market, and so,you know, if I'm able to give back a little bit of a productivityor some of my learnings that I've fought and and lost on and and andgive that advice to others. It's really super useful and would that. I'mScott and I'm sure, the good listening base of log what are your bigtop two or three? License and data management? Right, so if bondstarting and I want to get a ride and not not make the mistakes thatall of us made back then, what would what would those nuggets be?I'm biased because I work for, you know, largest data company, butI do think having really strong master data management and data cleanliness and data hygieneis foundational. So for us, I'm using zoom in, for in thiscase, to identify and tag all of my data, cross all my systems, is primary keys, and I'm nesting all that data together and then usingkind of all the technographics, promographics and tend all the employee count data,you know, to create this richness of information and it makes everything kind ofbetter throughout. And so I think why you use me or some other Ithink having really strong data practices and hiring folks who can help you do masterdata management, to clean up your data and to have a richness there isgoing to be really important foundation. And you know, whatever tool is thenreceiving that data is going to have a better outcome. So if you havecleaner phone numbers and cleaner emails, are going to have better response rate andopen rate because people are actually going to get your email. You're going havebetter deliverability because you're not sending bound, you know, emails in the samevein. If I'm tying the wrong customer accounts to the wrong counts, I'mgoing to be doing double prospecting and really clunky things that that look very unprofessional. So I think as you up your game, just having the data qualitybetter and better, it's going to make all the automation better, all thetools and now I'll come better as well. It's got I love that. Nowyou have the world right. You have your sales team, you gotyou offs team, you got see as, you got ps, you got support, you got marketing and everyone, like I'm sometimes, has your owndefinition of what Datama using. And how do you how do you center everyonea one massive data model? Like how do you get the dictionary, YourBible, written on that and get everyone on that same page? Yeah,I think the devolves in time. So the easy answer of Front, Ithink, is you know, if you use your crm as the source oftruths and integrate back, integrate everything into that. That acts as a naturaldefense mechanism for things proliferating and in out of Control Way. I think youknow, using a data tool to identify all the data and stitch together.I think once you grow and you're starting to then integrate earp data and otherkind of third party data resources or other models, I think then using moreadvanced data dictionary tools and build like right now for our analytics use, weare building out star Schemas that represent key areas of the business that can beconsumed in analytics processes and those are really well codified using structural diagrams and andreally profess National D engineering tools. And I think it's really about where you'reat in your life cycle. A lot of big companies sales force. Youthink about DOCCY's sign, they're doing these kind of really complicated things, dulloricle whatever. It's not probably right for a fifty million ACV company or ourcompany to be building this massive data architecture. There's a lot you can do incrm before you kind of go beyond. Yeah, I really love hearing youthink about this and talk about it in such a systematic ways, Gott, because one of the things that was always so frustrating to me when Iwas an analysis that everybody wants great data but no one wants to actually sitdown and do the work. And so you've thought about it and you havea process and there's there's a logical series of events that needs to happen andit really isn't mysterious if you do the hard work. If you don't dothe hard work, is really difficult. I think the other thing that's changingrapidly is that now we now have automatic data right back from all of theseinteractions that we have across a nonnesichannel experience between buyers and sellers, and sothat's starting to become extraordinarily exciting as we can capture and automatically get that dataout to the CRM, because those sales people actually ever really use therm,and so now we can lead frog beyond that problem, which I think it'ssuper, super exciting. It will be unpopular with my sales first friends,but I do think that the future of...

...sales actually lives outside of crm andseem starts to play a different role Uiux of tools like sales force. Ithink you have to make certain design trade us to be what sales force is, and I think you can't be all things to all people and have allof the robust architecture. And so I do think sales force and crm willbecome more of a system of record and a platform of automation with a moretools go to market platform ecosystem on top that's much more user friendly. AndI I love you you said because I to me it's funny to think about, but I think I think a lot about this kind of like duality oflike nature versus the process. And if your brain was like thirty five toolslike all trying to like do their own thing and have overlap, it getsreally confused. You know, it wouldn't work very well. But it's alladapted and there's kind of a commonality of connections and the way things are processedand great integrations that allow you to function. And so in time we need thedeep memory, we need stores, but we need all these interconnected processand and right now people are doing wildly creative things to create that network,by taking an offline to snowflake, to doing really crazy mule soft and kindof del Boom e type integration. And but if, if it all trulynested together in a common way. That was really powerful and simplistic. Ithink that's kind of where the the future of go to market ecosystem ends.Yeah, I totally agree with you. Until a little piece of advice.Don't worry about pissing off any from all our fronts over there. I usedto do it every other day and and then we just fine. But youknow, very interesting to hear hear your thought process around the future of Crm, which is fairly consistent with how I'm looking at it as well. Let'sprove it the conversation a little bit. Back to to Revobson and I'd liketo just talk a little bit about execution and the WHO do you report toand what's the makeup of our team? Look at look like we may havea variety of different listeners who are on different stages of this journey here,Scott. So we'd love to tap into some of your experience and expertise aroundsort of the structure and personas within your organization. Yeah, I think that. I think it's great. So our ORG has reported up into the thecrow. He's now been moved into this coo and is covering a broader swathiorganization, marketing, it operations. So ultimately we roll into the the CoOrg and I think that's really it's really powerful because he has sales, marketingand the it text deck and so it's all of the things that revenue operationscares about and has resources to go and attack. My Specific Org, Ithink it differs from a lot of the revops works at out there in thatI'm not specifically caring for enablement and I'm not specifically caring for forecast thing anda lot of the financial modeling all of my processes roll up to that andultimately I'm heavily integrated in that. But really my my revoffs team is stealsfirst, Admin, seals first engineering. We have scrimmasters leading agile teams,a product management team that's treating each area as an as an external customer andthen navigating their use case and caring for their process and acting as process engineers. We have dating, analytics, state engineering, data science and and soultimately it's really a development and data org and and doing a lot of heavyprocess engineering. And so, Scott, that's from menas with that that peaksmy interest. Did from the hardest part of redops right where ever looks atyou. They want the inside. They want you to get smart. Theamazing models. You come out with recommendations. I love that you called a proceedengineering, because how do you do processed re engineering? Let's say youlearn and you haven't you model. He handles learning. How do you getpeople to adopt and adapt and change, like what strategy to work? Wereyou there? Yeah, and I so. I think this is it's a nicetie back Canto. A lot of the a lot of the things thatI did. So right before I left dying where I was working on acorporate wide initiative and I was flying to all these locations worldwide doing the likeworkshops in Germany and Dubai on process reengineering, and we used a methodology around designthinking and and doing lean workshops that I actually have carried over and adapted. So when we attack a given process, we actually it's it's a machine nowand there's a lot of folks trained here how to do it. Sowe come in we say we want to attack the customer journey and and theonboarding and integrations process, and so we do full process inventories of all ofthe various processes that touch this and then we go through all of those.We inventory and we do detailed process mapping...

...and lucid chart and everyone's been taughtto do detailed walkthroughs of the entire swim lane to understand the stakeholders and theflow. We then go in and we do Kai's in sessions where we dowe put Kais in bursts across the entire process map and we start to ideateand solution around the broken parts of the process. And we have this scale, we called the wild to mild scale, and I encourage people to have crazywild ideas like what if we just didn't do this anymore? What ifwe completely did something else? What are we outsource this or what if wetook a whole different approach? And then we rank all those ideas and westart to talk about how those could be executed and then we use an effortand impact matrix to come out with what are the lowest im effort highest impactitems and then we create a worktick list. Then we integrate it back into ourscumb development cycle and then we re architect the processes based on these kindof ideations that we've had, including all the stakeholders and kind of continues toprove my agents that live in our organization. So we've done this quite a bit. We did this like on an SMB automation side. For customer wewere architected the customer journey. We've reimagined lead flow this way. It's howto sort of the enterprise with team selling. All this whole methodology extensible across allthese different processes, because if you amited a truck plant, you amiteda like a business process in the dubaias sales office of diame ler, oryou aim it at the customer Success Department of a Zoom Info, it's thesame formula process and you're engaging the smart people using a set of commonly understoodtools and methodologies to arrive at this outcome. That is thankful. Wild mild,I'm so going to rep that, opscond. That is that is awesome. It's a question. Obviously you've had a lifetime in being in and bactingsix seke them. You've been there down at you're bringing those not that knowledgeand thought process into what you're doing with process engineering. What about? Whatabout, for our first time, red bots leader, right, who's goingto be tackling this problem, like where do they start? Like? Whatdo they read? How they learn? Like where would you recommend them beginningthis jurity of maturity that you've gone through and driving true change manner? Yeah, I think. I think there's a couple recommendations. So one would be, if you haven't already get some core metrics on your funnel, just startfrom the top of the funnel. What's your leads, your demos, youropportunities, your wins, your losses, and then the comments are at conversionrates and start to then understand in that process where you're performing well, whereyou're where you're not performing well, and that's going to guide you, becausethe first thing you need to do is say what's broken, what's not working? Where am I bottle necked in my process? What's what's not functioning well? I think you could use the anecdotal evidence if something sticks out, butI do think starting to instrument and measure the process, it's going to giveyou a foundation. If you talk about six sigma, it's all rude andyou have to be able to the whole domatic process is like the define measureall of this. You can't do it unless you have this definition and measurephase. So I think just instrumenting and starting to collect data. It doesn'tneed to be crazy fancy. I think it's you can instrument it. Andthen I think just doing some some when you when you define and look ata give them process that is not optimal. Just start to process map out,like I like I mentioned, and I think there are lots of toolson process mapping or continuous improvement. I think there's probably some learning on howto facilitate effective workshops that someone could do. There's tools like you know, likePMP, how to manage a product project successfully. I don't think youneed all that necessarily, but just a little bit of Cei. A littlebit of a process management and product, excuse me, project management, willget you a long way. But then just start to document out the process. And even with without fail, I think it was like, Oh,I just write out the process, we're not going to know how to fixit, because I'm not like gifted in this whole thing. Without a doubt, when you get the process written out, I've never had a work where wewere we document the process and everyone's like, oh, yeah, that'sperfect, that upreates exactly every time. You know that and that we're nailin that. There's always something where you go, Oh, I didn't evenknow you guys were doing that. I don't even use that in the process. It's like you're spending three hours doing that transformation on this excel file.We don't even use that. We scrap that whole tap. You know,like those are the kinds of things where I think, like lead flow.Marketing is bringing the lead in there, enriching it, they're doing these things. The strs are getting it. The scrs might not use half of whatmarketing is doing with the leads, not using half that data, or theydon't even know what exists. And then the scrs are doing all this collectionand qualification and they never even sees it. And so like there's just threading ofdata and communication across these processes.

But that's really where I would start, is just start to understand your process, measure it and then as you asyou collect these different measurements, it sets norms in your business. SoI mean for you guys on the outreach side, they're very key. Conversionrates, volumes, they you know, they move over time as you accelerateand as you grow, as you get more efficient, and they start toshift. But there's always you know, as you trend those out, youcan watch the progression. If you tweak it so that you route less leadsbut higher quality, you should see the systemic change. That's one of thethings that I love in my job now is is I'm one of the peoplethat organization who knows the system and can watch the systematic change. So ifI push down leads, but but and filter for quality, I should thenbe able to see demos go down, conversion of those go up, completiongo up, my opportunities go up because I'm pushing better leads, my windrate should go up and my ACV should go up, and so I cansee all those systemic effects flow through from that one change. I may becauseit's instrumented. So I spoke a lot, but but they're, you know,just starting starting to dive into that. That's that's the first piece. Oneof the biggest things this role can do is to take, you know, sort of even very simple in narrow tweaks but apply them at scale.And when you applies things at scale you can see that transformational change. Soit's the talking Scott. I mean first of all I'm like so impressed withyou. I mean you know so much about data, business process technology.You've got problem solving skills. One of the things, you know, Ithink about when I think about transformation is there's through winners and losers, whetherthat's in the technology landscape or even in rules within organizations, and right nowI think that robobs is a winning role. Right you've got very high visibility intothe sea suite. You spoke about your interview process with Henry. You'vegot a doubly treumitt to support from your CEO. What are some of thesofter skills that you think some of your robops peers outside of your organizations shouldthink about start to work on, because I have to believe there's not everyonemaybe welcoming of this role. I think that's an evolution as well, andyou have to earn trust when you when you take stales operations, the itwork, marketing operations, customer operations, what that does is give you amassive stakeholder base of people who are depending on you for their livelihood and theiroutcome, and so there's definitely an immense amount of responsibility to them personally andand professionally to deliver and to take their needs seriously and to understand and empathizewith the struggles that they're facing them. So for me it's a lot ofheart to hearts and deep conversations with our sales leadership, our customer success leadership, and being able to float between, you know, technical data topic andin a really hard customer issue, to how do we best route leads tohow do we optimize the the deck for pitching and then how we innovate anew product and and so I think being able to to have some empathy,and I won't pretend to be the world's greatest at this. I'm I'm prettydirect and mission driven and what I do, but I think I'm well aligned withwhat our sales leaders care about and that also comes from the Cro CEO, whoever you report into, that they have a common lens and focus forthe business that everyone's kind of aimed in that same way. And I thinkChris Hayes, he was our Vpo of operations before I started and taught mequite a bit of what I know and he's now in that leadership rule.One thing he's really good at doing as unifying us all toward a common goaland target of what we should be focusing on Henry in the same vein.Like there's a very clear vision of where we're going and so with that Ithink we're able to navigate. But there's hard times. I mean there's againif you don't deliver or some thing's not optimized or there's capacity constrain, someprioritization. All that requires navigating and some tact and ability to have conversations andwork together. But I think that's where I think some more technical folks mightstruggle, is having those personal conversations and being able to empathize. Well,yeah, thank you for surface surfacing that, because I think it's really, reallyimportant. It becomes more important as you move up and off the organizationand and continue to exert more inth with so I know where could have comingto the end of the session. I've just sort of one quick question.What does Vos Nirvana look for you? Like for you and you know what, how are you thinking about getting there? I think ultimately I don't know thatthere's a final state. I'd hope. I hope that there's not a finalstate because it would make my job very boring if we ever actually arriveat that perfect endpoint. But I think...

...that having really, you know,really smooth process prioritization, having decentralized principles and capabilities of repops throughout the organization. Everyone should be a steward of process excellence. Everyone should be a stewardof digital transformation and the more and more that I work here, the moreI see our director of CX becoming a champion of continuous improvement being able togo and do that in his area. And so I think if we're doingvops right, we're fundamentally transforming the business and the people in the business todrive their own innovation and process. And so we look different in that wecontrol what's what's in our house, but we're a steward of broad change thatallows organizations at large and individuals to succeed well beyond the scope of the projectsthat we choose to take on internally, and so I think it becomes ahub and a center of excellence. We do the sales ops piece and therevops piece, but but there's kind of a broader calling to move move theorganization forward. Or thank Scott. Would that thank you so much for changingit up and actually going going mild a wild with us today. All thanksred bobs, data process, reengineering. I have a page to knows andfor the listeners that are really enjoyed a lot of takeaways. Appreciate your timeand look forward to talking again here in your picture as well. Yeah,thank you for Ury. She was great. Thank you for listening to the RevenueInnovators podcast. If you love what we're doing here, please leave usa five star rating and a shining review. If you're a revenue intovator yourself andyou're not part of the sales tacker community yet, you're missing out.Go to sales tackercom to become a member, ask questions, get fast answers.It's your experiences with Twentyzero likeminded professionals who's shaking things up in there organizations. Let's see you back on this podcast every other week to learn from theworld's most destructive revenue intivators. So that was it, the first episode ofthe Revenue Innovators podcast. We were so excited about it. It's going tobe remember it's every other Wednesday. Remember about our launch contest. If youleave a five star rating and review for the podcast into screenshot to marketing atSales Haccercom, will send you a five dollar starbucks gifts carred. So listenand enjoy hits. Subscribe. Let us send you some coffee. Before wesign off, of course we need to thank our sponsors. Of course it'soutreach. Outreach the number one sales engagement platform. Check out how outreach doesoutreach. Head to outreach, thatt IO, forward, slash on outreach to seewhat they've got going on. Also, thanks to pavilion, formally known asrevenue collective, unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Go tojoin pavilioncom to learn more and apply. And finally, thanks to sales navigatorand Linkedin. Of course, today's virtual and selling environment demands a new kindof approach, prioritizing the buyer above all else. Request a free demo forLinkedin sales navigator at Business Dot Linkedincom for its last sales solutions. You canreach me Linkedincom for its lash the word in for its last time. IfJacobs, Mary and Harrish, thank you so much. Any parting words ofwisdom, Harrish, will go to you first. Thanks and no, no, truly appreciate being able to lever address sales act for podcast for inaugural launchand looking forward to continue the conversation on the redneed innovator channel. Awesome,Mary. How about you? Yeah, thanks everyone for joining us and stayin touch with Harisha me. We're available on social direct message us. Letus know if you have ideas around how we can continue to prove the podcast, and also let us know if you want to be a featured guest.We're always looking forward to talking to folks who are out there innovating and breakingglass. Awesome, we'll talk to you next time. Folks, them,them, them, the, the,...

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