The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 10 months ago

167. Announcing: Revenue Innovators Podcast

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, Sam Jacobs talks with Mary Shea and Harish M about the newest podcast by Outreach, Revenue Innovators.

You'll also get a first look at one of the first episodes of Revenue Innovators with Scott Sutton.

If you leave a 5-star review and rating for Revenue Innovators, please send a screenshot to marketing@saleshacker.com and we’ll send you a $5 Starbucks gift card.

Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales hacker podcast. Today on the show we've got a really exciting episode because we've got a different podcast. We're actually bringing you the very first episode that salesacker is launching called the revenue innovators podcast, and the hosts are with me on the line and we're going to talk to them all about what's going to happen with the revenue innovators podcast, why they started it with. The two hosts are Mary Shay and HRISH Mohan, and I'll give them an opportunity to introduce themselves. But so we're really excited to bring this to you because it is the very first episode of this brand new podcast and we've got actually contest that will tell you about right before we get into it. Now, before we get there, we do have sponsors. We do have we do have to thank our sponsors because they help us put food on the table. So let me tell you about them. The first, of course, is outreach. Outreach has been a longtime sponsor of this podcast and I'm sure outreach will be a supporter of the revenue innovators podcast. They just launched a new way to learn. Outreach on outreach is the place to learn how outreach. Well does outreach? Learn how the team follows up with every lead in record time after virtual events and turns them into revenue. You can also see how outreach runs account Basse, plays, manages reps and so much more, using their very own sales engagement platform, everything backed up by data pult frum outreach processes and the customer base. When you're done, you'll be able to do it as well as they do. Head to outreach out io forward slash on outreach to see what they've got going on the the second sponsor, as always, is pavilion, formally known as revenue collective. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membership connects you with a network of thousands of like minded peers and resources where you can tap into leadership opportunities, training, mentorship and other services made for high growth leaders like you. Unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Leaders at every stage can get started today at join Pavilioncom. And finally, our sponsor is linkedin. Today's virtual selling environment demands a new kind of approach, one that prioritizes the buyer above all else. As the world's largest professional network with over seven hundred and twenty two million members, Linkedin is the only place where buyers and sellers connect, share and drive success for each other. Every day. Find new ways to connect with your bias virtually with linked in sales and have learn more or request a free demo at business dot linkedincom. Forward sales solutions now, Mary and Hurrish, welcome and thank you so much for joining us and for launching the revenue innovators podcast. Mary, you are the global innovation evangelisted outreach, and Hurrish, you are the svp of revenue excellence and operations, also at outreach. Welcome to welcome to our introductory show. Well, thank you, Sam. Thanks so much. It's great to be here. We're excited to have you. So let Mary, why don't we start just what is what our revenue in innovators? Tell us what inspired the name. Tell us what we can expect when we listen to the show out yeah, thanks for asking. So you know, as we come out of this global pandemic, I've been thinking a lot and writing quite a bit about the fact that we're in the midst of some pretty significant societal and business transformation coupled with massive technological innovation. As you start to think about your own world, whether it's in the personal side or on the work, work side. I know people are trying to prioritize health and wellbeing and think about new collaboration models and figuring out, you know, the role that automation and AI is going to have in our lives. And I just started to think about business models, sales models, sales methods really transforming and using this I think this period as we get back out into the world for very, very significant innovation, and so we wanted to create a podcast that was designed for leaders in the revenue world who are innovating and finding new ways to go to market, new ways to put the buyer at the center of all their strategies, who are completely arming their go to market teams with top tier sales technologies. And these are folks that we think over indexes on data of versus sort of the art of leading and selling. It's so Harrish and I were kicking this around for a while and we had some other really creative folks working with us and we came up with the title love it Harrish and when what first of all, your title is stp of Revenue Excellence and operations. Does that tell us more about that, but also tell us so what are the some of the big topics you're excited to cover on the podcast? Yeah, no, no thanks, and yeah, I'm marrying. I have the only person I wroach has a fancier title than me. But now it's a great point in the reason we call it revenue excellence in operations is, you know, and the why I'm actually passionate about having you know, you launching this podcast with Mary is red bobs kind of been around for a few years now. You know, we percolated. It's kind of go from forming Norman, but if you think about, you know, the industry, the industry awareness...

...and how people are doing it, it's still very NASAN. A lot of confirmation buys, a lot of people still think about it as sales offs plus right. It's really not breaking that barrier, but really redops, because it should be that baseline that owns the customer journey and business model end to end and helps you drive innovation, helps you drive a data centric approach, helps you be buy or center, and that's what we call it. Read me excellence and operations, because it's not only about data and offs but it's about execution excellence as well and taking that data driving execution. And that's part of what we expect the redne innovator to do right. And a red me innovator is not just a rep or a sales manager. A ready innovator happens across all parts of the revenue or but really has a data centricity, buyers centricity, on n channel approach to a customer journey and and that's what we're trying to build and that's the conversation we want to have the market. We want to get away more controvation buys and talk about what need things people are doing, maybe outside a tech that we can all benefit one. Well, let's let me ask each of you one more questions and then we'll dive into the episode. But hurries to that point. If, if we're thinking about revenue innovation, what are some of the what are you hearing out there in the market as some examples of what people are doing from an innovation perspective to bring new revenue strategies that are focused on by ECENTRICITY and data centricity? Yeah, absolutely right. I mean, and you know what what's up at one of the episodes. But we have revenue leaders room came from a supply chain background, right, which I think leads up to first episode where they're looking at well, how do we use data and supply chain? How do we do a podcasting supply Shi how do we how do we meet the customer where they were? How do we learn from customer usage habits to pull back into it, into the customer journey? So that's one example. If you look at consumer CPG and how they target customers and learn and build a data model around your customer three hundred and sixty and all your behaviors, and every time I open you know, I open my computer, I'm like yeah, you know what, I haven't had trick fill you in a while. How do they read my mind? Right? I mean what have you. That's should come to software, right, and especially where your buyers more intelligent, your buyers in patient. We're used to doing zoom thirty minute conversations. I want to get a conversation where I had value like that. Data Transit centricity happening outside. Attack is now comminent attack and we're starting to see and talk to some of the innovators are that are going to be launching about and marry. You probably have a platter of examples from your perspective. Yeah, absolutely, thanks, Harry Shaving. We want to talk to leaders who are out there breaking glass, who are finding new ways to arm their selling organization, and we also want to talk to companies, you know, folks that are companies of all shames in the sizes. As her rich mentioned, we learn a lot from the tech industry and services, but we also want to talk to some larger traditional businesses, maybe even some that are considered legacy, whether they're packaging or, you know, beverage companies or other types of retailers who deal with massive quantities of data and have found ways to be really buyer centric in terms of how they go to market. So we're super excited and looking forward to learning a lot and interviewing some really exciting leaders out there in the marketplace. It's we're all incredibly excited. Last question for you, Mary. WHO's the ideal audience for this? Who needs to pay attention to this podcast? If folks are out there listening and you really want to make sure that there's a certain group of people that tune in every Wednesday, when the show or every other Wednesday, who is in your mind, sure it's, you know, your most ambitious folks on the revenue a team. So, as Hoy said, certainly we're interviewing, you know, ce suite executives, very senior level executives, but we're also looking at director levels and other folks who are of the commers. So I really think it's anyone who is really interested in, you know, building long term relationships, taking a digital first approach, with a data mindset, who wants to continue to learn and grow in their career. So it can be, you know, that top revenue officer, it can be someone in charge of revolves or, even more traditionally, sales operations, and even your individual contributors who are looking to really get an edge as it relates to going to market with more of the science rather than the art. I love it. Well, we're let's. I'm excited for it and thank you so much for joining us as an introduction on the show and sharing a bit about it again. It's called revenue innovators. For folks that are out there, you can find it on all of your favorite platforms. Every other Wednesday. Were actually about to listen to the very first episode featuring Mary Harrish and their guest right now. Before we jump into it, I want to let you know a about a little launch contest that's happening in support of revenue innovators. If you leave a five star rating and review for the PODCAST,...

...send a screenshot of it to marketing at sales hackercom and will send you a five dollar stop starbucks Gift Card, which should get you most of a coffee, we hope. It depends on what's happening with inflation at starbucks, but we will send you a five dollar stock Lex Gift Card. Just send a screenshot of your five star rating and review to marketing at sales haccercom. So listen and enjoy hits, subscribe and let us send you some coffee. Now let's listen today's very first episode of Revenue Innovators. Welcome to the revenue innovators, the podcast powered by outreach. Will we skip the usual podcast guests and goes straight to the source of true revenue innovation. Will Interview Mad Scientists, revenue distructors from all kinds of surprising industries. That's right. Something in common these are leader look into the future and not the past, their boats, who are breaking glass in their go to market organizations and not just getting through the day. We're your hosts. I'm Mary Shay, Global Innovation Evangelist that outreach, and I'm small, senior vice president bringing excellent in operation, also at a reach we see here every as a week, and we promised to keep it spicy for you. Let's jump in. Welcome back everyone. Mary Shay here, Global Innovation Evangelist Without Rache, along with my colleague Harry Schmallan, our SPP of revels and strategy, we're here today speaking with Scott Sutton from Zoom Info. So, Scott, thank you so much for joining us for through the Ab you on the show and I wonder if you would spend just a few moments telling the audience a little bit about what you do at Cei and how you typically spend your days. That's awesome. Thank you both, Mary and a Reish for having me. I'm the VP of revenue operations as Zoom Info, and so you know, day today I spend most of my time focusing on our go to market operations. are going to market text stack and really helping to craft and engineer, you know, we consider to be a world class go to market process here. So evolutionary journey. I where a lot of hats, but I think that's part of the fun that we all send up for. Awesome Wall won't thank you's got. One of the reasons I was super excited, of the many reasons to get you on on the show, was your background. Writing and we talked a lot of revenue operations professionals and you look at where they got they started. It starts from the traditional like operation, sales offs and bills up that. But that's not you and I think a lot. I think a lot of where you came from, and I'm sadurbays in the world of making trucks and starting with actual manufacturing and bring those principles in with would want to get a little bit more to background of how you got started in option and how you found your way to redney operations. It is interesting and I look back and I reflect and you know, we all kind of look at our own development through life and how we arrived over at and and probably wouldn't do it a different way, but it's always kind of the serendipitous journey. So I actually started out in supply chain and even getting into supply chain was was serendipity. I had a professor, Leeb address, who is transformative. He's spent hours talking with me after class and talking about logistics and transportation and how to build world class supply chains and really was, you know, fostered that creative side and trying to solve problems and it was something where there was a huge need in the market and it was it was applicable. So dove in there and ended up studying. He actually laided me my first job out of school with Daimler doing supply and logistics. And when I when I exited from from school, it was actually in two thousand and two thousand and nine, right amidst the real estate crash and the financial crisis, and so it was a really tough time and I remember, you know, we shut down a factory, we late, you know, lit off quite a few people, we should down a whole brand and one of my early jobs was going around and and trying to do with these bankruptcies and so, you know, kind of coming through that whole supply chain Lens. I think the core tenets of what I learned throughout that is how to design world class processes. We're really big in the toilet production system and and I spend time in Mexico helping build out a new Semitra factory and and so a lot of those different applications of creative problem solving I will puzzles my whole life. Fun fact is that I used to do rubex cue competitively, you know, and it was just, you know, playing chess or poker. Those are the kinds of things that were always the you know, trying to solve problem was in a unique way. Yeah, that's awesome, but I think you know that curiosity, the learning, the trying to adapt a skill set to a new a new challenge has been something that I've carried with me my whole life. And and and I found zoom info all sort of serendipity. It was actually via an instagram post from someone my gym who said I work at this amazing company. It's doing big things. Discover or at the time you should come on down and I met with...

Henry, I met with Chris Hayes fill up and we spent, you know, a few months going back and forth on what's the right role, what's right job. I joined right before the acquisition of Zoom Info and you know, they took a big chance on me and that provided amazing mentorship. But I brought that that data driven kind of supply chain to nacity with me and under their stewardship, learned a lot very quickly how to run this ass business, how to run and build a great go to market engine, and since then it's it's been something really fun that we've done together and now kind of I'm helping to accelerate beyond that vision while they start to focus on bigger, bigger challenges and other new areas of the business. That's so fascinating. Scot there said a couple of different areas that I find personally really interesting. One is a serendipitous aspect of finding a job. I think the best jobs that I've ever had have been where I've kind of found myself at the right time at the right place. So I was willing to take that jump, that leap and take a big risk. What's really interesting to me, you'll stan anticipated my next question and I know we haven't even talked about this in previous conversations. I really wanted to ask you did you have to talk your way into the job and as infold because you know, your background and your qualifications were so different from what you know executives might hire for rebops or go to market leadership role, and yet at the same time what you brought to the table seemed to be transformative to the company. So we're your bosses sort of open to your background, or do you have to do a lot of convincing? Yeah, there was definitely a discussion that happened and I think my journey to is is kind of evolutionary and I think, you know, my own growth and development and my life was was kind of seeking progression and also seeking something that was the right fit for what I wanted to accomplish. And so Diamler, you know, they're very well established company, been around since even the eighteen hundreds or the first automobile manufacture. Hundred Twenty five years in the making, and but a lot of that is very big company dynamics, kind of slower growth, and I've always been into the text scene. I'm the guy with the newest gadget and and so as I was going through and progressing, I actually was in finance, I was in for Kurement. I tried a lot of different things to help round out the skill set. But there's a point where I said, you know, I was still a diamler and I said, what do I really want to be accomplishing in my career and where do I think the markets are progressing? And I knew that it was in software, particularly softwarees of service. I knew it was in a smaller company where I could get a broader experience across the entire business. And so I actually ended up stumbling upon a program through Harvard that taught dating analytics and machine learning and it was a pilot program that was a combination of the engineering school, Computer Science School as well as the business school, and so I spent two years doing that and I think what was compelling is I had some of these like rigger and chops through that work. And at the time I was leading a dating analytics company or department at that company, but also had supply to you and I talk to Henry, they're like, Huh Yeah, supply chain guy, you know dating analytics, solving tough problems. We could use you and and so we originally started talking about a customer analytics position and kind of working in that lane and eventually it came more in this operational role, leading corporate initiatives, big major programs that the company was trying to execute against and it just happened to be the acquisition of zoominfo. So I think it was that project management, the ability to quickly learn and adapt, leverage data and move people in the right direction that that was compelling. But there was definitely a big conversation prior. It lasted about six months that I didn't know if it was going to happen or not, but really really excited that it didn't. It's been. Honestly, it's been the biggest, biggest positive step of my career was joining these guys and what there, what they're accomplishing here. Such a such a great, great story and I anticipated that. It wasn't a short conversation. So that's six months for everybody to come to agreements there, but what a wonderful story. I also think, you know, my curve started in musicology and that's the musicology and I have a Ph d and do a lot of research and it's funny, you know, when you start to think about sales and sales tag there's actually quite a lot of connection between how you use both your right braid and your left brace. So I think you know you bring to the table could be so interesting in this particular role. So really great to hear your background. Thank you, Mary. Maybe that's how we get along so well. I start off as an engineer. So there you go. We got the get the perfect music and engineer and it's got one of the things we talked about, which you know, really good resonates. We think about redney innovators and Conso of people redefining go to market strategies or, you know what, the bread bobs role did not start in tech like we love that, you know, we kind of...

...place where everything starts in tag and we built everything, but it didn't write it. It started in retail, it started in supply chain and manufacturing. So and we're now embracing that concept in the data driven world. Actually, drive back comes and I'm Pierce, I how do you adapt what you did aid din learn to the Revenue Operations Roll? Like what what is the supply chain of Sass look like to you and how did it like, how did you bring in your learnings at door? Yeah, I think I think it's really good point. And you know, if I think about SASS and and and you know, kind of this young, growing area of business. One thing that they've constantly done is look for inspiration from other companies as they're growing and developing it. And one of the things I found working for a really large established company is they've got an answer for everything. They're like, you know, you ask a question, though, like all we thought about that. This is the right answer, and I think with with Sass it's always like, we don't have any answer. Let's look at everything and every you know, whatever is out there. So I find a lot of what I do is is an exploratory research process. So, you know, I was given a software engineering team within revenue operations and I said, what's the world class way to run this? I did tons of research on devops and read all the literature on the best ways to do continuous deployment, continus integration, have, you know, automated Qa and test, and I didn't have a frame of reference to define this. So I was looking at the industry, leading folks and reading there's a company in Portland that puts out the state of devops report and I started to consume things like this and I think it's that hunger in that research that leads us to define what world class should look like, because we don't have, you know, cookie cutter view on that or preconceived notion, and that's why that's what I love to do and that's, you know, I think it's really a job fit for me is because I want to find the new answer, the the the best solution that's never been thought of and there's just so much opportunity to do that in this kind of role at this kind of company. So it's interesting. You've mentioned sauce a couple times and, you know, I start to think about the proliferation of Sass outside of software and tack and now evolving into much more traditional industries and traditional businesses. Do you think that there's a way SASS is hot people to buy and sell, is is really transforming the need for this revofs roll or what role do you think Sass plays and in sort of rebofs being so hot right now? Scott, I think there is a need and I think there's a lot that's transferring from from SASS. One thing I noticed, as you know, when I was transitioning out of diaime ler over to discover or consume info, is that they were looking for continuous subscription based revenue streams through their advanced products. So I was working on a lot of the development of autunomous vehicle, electric vehicle and advanced safety systems and a lot of those offer subscription services and and it ability to monetize more the customer relationship and the continuing service. But beyond that, I think, you know, so much of traditional selling has just been the handshaking and the golf course is and I think there's just been such a strong demonstration of a more efficient way to sell and one that's that is light and loved by the customer and it's very efficient. And so I think because of that proven success, more and more want to now adubt these tools I talked I've actually done a lot of sessions with leaders around kind of the covid time about how do I transition my field sales team, how do I tradution? You know, some transition my enterprise on prem sellers to this zoom video sales thing and what's this Gong thing? And what's was this outreach tool you guys are talking about? It's just there's a higher level satisfaction, there's a higher level of productivity and and I think ultimately it's hard to deny that success. You brought something that top of mind from sure everybody listening and we're all kind of kind of figure out how to rocket. Where do you think selling goes? Right? Is it? Is it? Are We? Are we all in a post covid remote world? Are we going back? is a hybrid, like who was you thinking about optimizing your stack and you programmed your sellers and go to market individuals one way. Now the world changing and I was in an airport the last two weeks and I was like, Oh my God, the world's back. And so where do we lay? Like how? How are you thinking about your your go to market stack? How people going to gage? You know what they want out of it? Like where's your head out at that in that with that reopening is good, I think, even in two ways. I think the first is is digital selling, and then I think there's kind of the remote wor topic, and I don't think that they are always paired and I don't think they're always mutually exclusive to one another. The digital selling door and and how mention is in our earnings call, you know's asked by an analyst about this, this kind of transformation to a digital selling world. I don't think that ever goes back. That's the one way door because it adds to the process,...

...it adds to the experience, it adds efficiency and I think now that those gains have been experienced, there is no going back on that front. I think when we talk about remote work and hybrid work, I think that will be an evil continued evolution and I think there will be some step back into the office. And I don't pretend to have the right answer because you know, I've been back in the office. I'm in the office now, and the human interaction and seeing people in person and get to interact with them and build relationship is immensely valuable. So I think at a minimum there there needs to be some establishing a relationship and and I am a fan of bringing people together physically. I don't think, though, that the five day work model requiring everyone to be co located. That's also not the right answer, and so I think over time what I want to prevent is that every you know the mental health side of being ice in isolation, being at home by yourself. It's very real, and so I think we're going to be constantly finding what the right balance is and I leave it to people smarter than me to find that right balance. But there is this pollen tug of productivity, of human relationship, of psychology and mental health that I think we should all just be aware of and and, as as we kind of progress through life and work, define what works best for us in our teams. Yeah, I think that's such a software response, Scott. Thank you, and I know the mental health topic is is top of mine. For a lot of people right now in the isolation has been really troubling and but on the other hand, I was actually speaking with one of our board members the other day who said that he's actually never been fitter. He lost ten pounds, he's working out every day, he's getting healthy meals with his family, he's getting more quality time. So I think there's going to be a hesitancy for many of us who have reprioritized our ourselves and our wellness to, you know, immediately get back onto that that drone of constant, punishing business travel. I know, Varaci, you know, you know what that's like. I was, I was, you know, every week prior to this and as I step back and realize how productive I've been, I will be a lot more thoughtful before I agree to go out on the road. So I tend to think we'll see on site meetings with teams come together, where you're bringing remote folks together more frequently, where you'll have these industry events where we really missed that time together Scott, where you get, you know, vendors and practitioners and technology leaders and thought leaders together. I'd think the one to one sales or the selling model we're going to be doing at least stating for some of that promoter digitally and I do think we certainly will have that hybrid moment where you have to go on site, but I think it will really be at the desire of the the vine committee in the buyer groups versus you know, we have to put towards those Medas and I like the way, though, fully separated digital selling and remote work. I think you're absolute right. There's a two different things and they can coexist. Right and to Mary's point and your point, digital selling is the future and I'm going to bring it back. Like the buyer is more impatient and more intelligent, and what I've learned, probably you learn Scott, with the amount of people at Coldbra trying to sell the like. I want information, I want try to go information, I want to give it to me. I want to get out because a thirty five more zoom calls and I don't have time for like vendor, vendor, who copy. And you know that the importance of data and pulling information and being prepared and leveraging and harvesting datas never been more important in this digital sales economy. And but zoom in for like. This is what you do right. You're in the business of selling this data, DNA. So how would you seen the world of bolved? Right? I mean people are probably company in Scottland. How are you using data? What are you doing? How is you we in Foo leveraging like have a you see, in the evolution of data and the go to market operation. I think it's been amazing and I feel like I spend probably at least five to six hours a week with our customers talking about how we're leveraging data and how they can evolve their go to market. And I think it's a spectrum. We live kind of in the enterprise experimentation side, where we're leveraging snowflake and using machine learning and really complex kind of customer three hundred and sixty data models to to do really kind of fascinating things at scale. We are, you know, serials organization something like a thousand people, and so the little things matter at that scale. But I'm also having discussions with folks who are just building their organization, wanting to start to automate email sequences or just wanting to understand how to leverage our data and list for power dialers and and so I think it truly is an...

...evolutionary journey. As you know, folks progress. I'm actually going to speak with Mike, we are from GTWO, on that kind of same evolution, like text act through the through the life cycle, and I think it's a challenge to have the right answer of kind of how you progress and you augment your text act and solution. But I think that's part of what I really enjoy is like we hit on it really early. So many people have been supportive of me and teaching me what's the next kind of you know thing and go to market, and so, you know, if I'm able to give back a little bit of a productivity or some of my learnings that I've fought and and lost on and and and give that advice to others. It's really super useful and would that. I'm Scott and I'm sure, the good listening base of log what are your big top two or three? License and data management? Right, so if bond starting and I want to get a ride and not not make the mistakes that all of us made back then, what would what would those nuggets be? I'm biased because I work for, you know, largest data company, but I do think having really strong master data management and data cleanliness and data hygiene is foundational. So for us, I'm using zoom in, for in this case, to identify and tag all of my data, cross all my systems, is primary keys, and I'm nesting all that data together and then using kind of all the technographics, promographics and tend all the employee count data, you know, to create this richness of information and it makes everything kind of better throughout. And so I think why you use me or some other I think having really strong data practices and hiring folks who can help you do master data management, to clean up your data and to have a richness there is going to be really important foundation. And you know, whatever tool is then receiving that data is going to have a better outcome. So if you have cleaner phone numbers and cleaner emails, are going to have better response rate and open rate because people are actually going to get your email. You're going have better deliverability because you're not sending bound, you know, emails in the same vein. If I'm tying the wrong customer accounts to the wrong counts, I'm going to be doing double prospecting and really clunky things that that look very unprofessional. So I think as you up your game, just having the data quality better and better, it's going to make all the automation better, all the tools and now I'll come better as well. It's got I love that. Now you have the world right. You have your sales team, you got you offs team, you got see as, you got ps, you got support, you got marketing and everyone, like I'm sometimes, has your own definition of what Datama using. And how do you how do you center everyone a one massive data model? Like how do you get the dictionary, Your Bible, written on that and get everyone on that same page? Yeah, I think the devolves in time. So the easy answer of Front, I think, is you know, if you use your crm as the source of truths and integrate back, integrate everything into that. That acts as a natural defense mechanism for things proliferating and in out of Control Way. I think you know, using a data tool to identify all the data and stitch together. I think once you grow and you're starting to then integrate earp data and other kind of third party data resources or other models, I think then using more advanced data dictionary tools and build like right now for our analytics use, we are building out star Schemas that represent key areas of the business that can be consumed in analytics processes and those are really well codified using structural diagrams and and really profess National D engineering tools. And I think it's really about where you're at in your life cycle. A lot of big companies sales force. You think about DOCCY's sign, they're doing these kind of really complicated things, dull oricle whatever. It's not probably right for a fifty million ACV company or our company to be building this massive data architecture. There's a lot you can do in crm before you kind of go beyond. Yeah, I really love hearing you think about this and talk about it in such a systematic ways, Gott, because one of the things that was always so frustrating to me when I was an analysis that everybody wants great data but no one wants to actually sit down and do the work. And so you've thought about it and you have a process and there's there's a logical series of events that needs to happen and it really isn't mysterious if you do the hard work. If you don't do the hard work, is really difficult. I think the other thing that's changing rapidly is that now we now have automatic data right back from all of these interactions that we have across a nonnesichannel experience between buyers and sellers, and so that's starting to become extraordinarily exciting as we can capture and automatically get that data out to the CRM, because those sales people actually ever really use therm, and so now we can lead frog beyond that problem, which I think it's super, super exciting. It will be unpopular with my sales first friends, but I do think that the future of...

...sales actually lives outside of crm and seem starts to play a different role Uiux of tools like sales force. I think you have to make certain design trade us to be what sales force is, and I think you can't be all things to all people and have all of the robust architecture. And so I do think sales force and crm will become more of a system of record and a platform of automation with a more tools go to market platform ecosystem on top that's much more user friendly. And I I love you you said because I to me it's funny to think about, but I think I think a lot about this kind of like duality of like nature versus the process. And if your brain was like thirty five tools like all trying to like do their own thing and have overlap, it gets really confused. You know, it wouldn't work very well. But it's all adapted and there's kind of a commonality of connections and the way things are processed and great integrations that allow you to function. And so in time we need the deep memory, we need stores, but we need all these interconnected process and and right now people are doing wildly creative things to create that network, by taking an offline to snowflake, to doing really crazy mule soft and kind of del Boom e type integration. And but if, if it all truly nested together in a common way. That was really powerful and simplistic. I think that's kind of where the the future of go to market ecosystem ends. Yeah, I totally agree with you. Until a little piece of advice. Don't worry about pissing off any from all our fronts over there. I used to do it every other day and and then we just fine. But you know, very interesting to hear hear your thought process around the future of Crm, which is fairly consistent with how I'm looking at it as well. Let's prove it the conversation a little bit. Back to to Revobson and I'd like to just talk a little bit about execution and the WHO do you report to and what's the makeup of our team? Look at look like we may have a variety of different listeners who are on different stages of this journey here, Scott. So we'd love to tap into some of your experience and expertise around sort of the structure and personas within your organization. Yeah, I think that. I think it's great. So our ORG has reported up into the the crow. He's now been moved into this coo and is covering a broader swathi organization, marketing, it operations. So ultimately we roll into the the Co Org and I think that's really it's really powerful because he has sales, marketing and the it text deck and so it's all of the things that revenue operations cares about and has resources to go and attack. My Specific Org, I think it differs from a lot of the revops works at out there in that I'm not specifically caring for enablement and I'm not specifically caring for forecast thing and a lot of the financial modeling all of my processes roll up to that and ultimately I'm heavily integrated in that. But really my my revoffs team is steals first, Admin, seals first engineering. We have scrimmasters leading agile teams, a product management team that's treating each area as an as an external customer and then navigating their use case and caring for their process and acting as process engineers. We have dating, analytics, state engineering, data science and and so ultimately it's really a development and data org and and doing a lot of heavy process engineering. And so, Scott, that's from menas with that that peaks my interest. Did from the hardest part of redops right where ever looks at you. They want the inside. They want you to get smart. The amazing models. You come out with recommendations. I love that you called a proceed engineering, because how do you do processed re engineering? Let's say you learn and you haven't you model. He handles learning. How do you get people to adopt and adapt and change, like what strategy to work? Were you there? Yeah, and I so. I think this is it's a nice tie back Canto. A lot of the a lot of the things that I did. So right before I left dying where I was working on a corporate wide initiative and I was flying to all these locations worldwide doing the like workshops in Germany and Dubai on process reengineering, and we used a methodology around design thinking and and doing lean workshops that I actually have carried over and adapted. So when we attack a given process, we actually it's it's a machine now and there's a lot of folks trained here how to do it. So we come in we say we want to attack the customer journey and and the onboarding and integrations process, and so we do full process inventories of all of the various processes that touch this and then we go through all of those. We inventory and we do detailed process mapping...

...and lucid chart and everyone's been taught to do detailed walkthroughs of the entire swim lane to understand the stakeholders and the flow. We then go in and we do Kai's in sessions where we do we put Kais in bursts across the entire process map and we start to ideate and solution around the broken parts of the process. And we have this scale, we called the wild to mild scale, and I encourage people to have crazy wild ideas like what if we just didn't do this anymore? What if we completely did something else? What are we outsource this or what if we took a whole different approach? And then we rank all those ideas and we start to talk about how those could be executed and then we use an effort and impact matrix to come out with what are the lowest im effort highest impact items and then we create a worktick list. Then we integrate it back into our scumb development cycle and then we re architect the processes based on these kind of ideations that we've had, including all the stakeholders and kind of continues to prove my agents that live in our organization. So we've done this quite a bit. We did this like on an SMB automation side. For customer we were architected the customer journey. We've reimagined lead flow this way. It's how to sort of the enterprise with team selling. All this whole methodology extensible across all these different processes, because if you amited a truck plant, you amited a like a business process in the dubaias sales office of diame ler, or you aim it at the customer Success Department of a Zoom Info, it's the same formula process and you're engaging the smart people using a set of commonly understood tools and methodologies to arrive at this outcome. That is thankful. Wild mild, I'm so going to rep that, opscond. That is that is awesome. It's a question. Obviously you've had a lifetime in being in and bacting six seke them. You've been there down at you're bringing those not that knowledge and thought process into what you're doing with process engineering. What about? What about, for our first time, red bots leader, right, who's going to be tackling this problem, like where do they start? Like? What do they read? How they learn? Like where would you recommend them beginning this jurity of maturity that you've gone through and driving true change manner? Yeah, I think. I think there's a couple recommendations. So one would be, if you haven't already get some core metrics on your funnel, just start from the top of the funnel. What's your leads, your demos, your opportunities, your wins, your losses, and then the comments are at conversion rates and start to then understand in that process where you're performing well, where you're where you're not performing well, and that's going to guide you, because the first thing you need to do is say what's broken, what's not working? Where am I bottle necked in my process? What's what's not functioning well? I think you could use the anecdotal evidence if something sticks out, but I do think starting to instrument and measure the process, it's going to give you a foundation. If you talk about six sigma, it's all rude and you have to be able to the whole domatic process is like the define measure all of this. You can't do it unless you have this definition and measure phase. So I think just instrumenting and starting to collect data. It doesn't need to be crazy fancy. I think it's you can instrument it. And then I think just doing some some when you when you define and look at a give them process that is not optimal. Just start to process map out, like I like I mentioned, and I think there are lots of tools on process mapping or continuous improvement. I think there's probably some learning on how to facilitate effective workshops that someone could do. There's tools like you know, like PMP, how to manage a product project successfully. I don't think you need all that necessarily, but just a little bit of Cei. A little bit of a process management and product, excuse me, project management, will get you a long way. But then just start to document out the process. And even with without fail, I think it was like, Oh, I just write out the process, we're not going to know how to fix it, because I'm not like gifted in this whole thing. Without a doubt, when you get the process written out, I've never had a work where we were we document the process and everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's perfect, that upreates exactly every time. You know that and that we're nail in that. There's always something where you go, Oh, I didn't even know you guys were doing that. I don't even use that in the process. It's like you're spending three hours doing that transformation on this excel file. We don't even use that. We scrap that whole tap. You know, like those are the kinds of things where I think, like lead flow. Marketing is bringing the lead in there, enriching it, they're doing these things. The strs are getting it. The scrs might not use half of what marketing is doing with the leads, not using half that data, or they don't even know what exists. And then the scrs are doing all this collection and qualification and they never even sees it. And so like there's just threading of data and communication across these processes.

But that's really where I would start, is just start to understand your process, measure it and then as you as you collect these different measurements, it sets norms in your business. So I mean for you guys on the outreach side, they're very key. Conversion rates, volumes, they you know, they move over time as you accelerate and as you grow, as you get more efficient, and they start to shift. But there's always you know, as you trend those out, you can watch the progression. If you tweak it so that you route less leads but higher quality, you should see the systemic change. That's one of the things that I love in my job now is is I'm one of the people that organization who knows the system and can watch the systematic change. So if I push down leads, but but and filter for quality, I should then be able to see demos go down, conversion of those go up, completion go up, my opportunities go up because I'm pushing better leads, my wind rate should go up and my ACV should go up, and so I can see all those systemic effects flow through from that one change. I may because it's instrumented. So I spoke a lot, but but they're, you know, just starting starting to dive into that. That's that's the first piece. One of the biggest things this role can do is to take, you know, sort of even very simple in narrow tweaks but apply them at scale. And when you applies things at scale you can see that transformational change. So it's the talking Scott. I mean first of all I'm like so impressed with you. I mean you know so much about data, business process technology. You've got problem solving skills. One of the things, you know, I think about when I think about transformation is there's through winners and losers, whether that's in the technology landscape or even in rules within organizations, and right now I think that robobs is a winning role. Right you've got very high visibility into the sea suite. You spoke about your interview process with Henry. You've got a doubly treumitt to support from your CEO. What are some of the softer skills that you think some of your robops peers outside of your organizations should think about start to work on, because I have to believe there's not everyone maybe welcoming of this role. I think that's an evolution as well, and you have to earn trust when you when you take stales operations, the it work, marketing operations, customer operations, what that does is give you a massive stakeholder base of people who are depending on you for their livelihood and their outcome, and so there's definitely an immense amount of responsibility to them personally and and professionally to deliver and to take their needs seriously and to understand and empathize with the struggles that they're facing them. So for me it's a lot of heart to hearts and deep conversations with our sales leadership, our customer success leadership, and being able to float between, you know, technical data topic and in a really hard customer issue, to how do we best route leads to how do we optimize the the deck for pitching and then how we innovate a new product and and so I think being able to to have some empathy, and I won't pretend to be the world's greatest at this. I'm I'm pretty direct and mission driven and what I do, but I think I'm well aligned with what our sales leaders care about and that also comes from the Cro CEO, whoever you report into, that they have a common lens and focus for the business that everyone's kind of aimed in that same way. And I think Chris Hayes, he was our Vpo of operations before I started and taught me quite a bit of what I know and he's now in that leadership rule. One thing he's really good at doing as unifying us all toward a common goal and target of what we should be focusing on Henry in the same vein. Like there's a very clear vision of where we're going and so with that I think we're able to navigate. But there's hard times. I mean there's again if you don't deliver or some thing's not optimized or there's capacity constrain, some prioritization. All that requires navigating and some tact and ability to have conversations and work together. But I think that's where I think some more technical folks might struggle, is having those personal conversations and being able to empathize. Well, yeah, thank you for surface surfacing that, because I think it's really, really important. It becomes more important as you move up and off the organization and and continue to exert more inth with so I know where could have coming to the end of the session. I've just sort of one quick question. What does Vos Nirvana look for you? Like for you and you know what, how are you thinking about getting there? I think ultimately I don't know that there's a final state. I'd hope. I hope that there's not a final state because it would make my job very boring if we ever actually arrive at that perfect endpoint. But I think...

...that having really, you know, really smooth process prioritization, having decentralized principles and capabilities of repops throughout the organization. Everyone should be a steward of process excellence. Everyone should be a steward of digital transformation and the more and more that I work here, the more I see our director of CX becoming a champion of continuous improvement being able to go and do that in his area. And so I think if we're doing vops right, we're fundamentally transforming the business and the people in the business to drive their own innovation and process. And so we look different in that we control what's what's in our house, but we're a steward of broad change that allows organizations at large and individuals to succeed well beyond the scope of the projects that we choose to take on internally, and so I think it becomes a hub and a center of excellence. We do the sales ops piece and the revops piece, but but there's kind of a broader calling to move move the organization forward. Or thank Scott. Would that thank you so much for changing it up and actually going going mild a wild with us today. All thanks red bobs, data process, reengineering. I have a page to knows and for the listeners that are really enjoyed a lot of takeaways. Appreciate your time and look forward to talking again here in your picture as well. Yeah, thank you for Ury. She was great. Thank you for listening to the Revenue Innovators podcast. If you love what we're doing here, please leave us a five star rating and a shining review. If you're a revenue intovator yourself and you're not part of the sales tacker community yet, you're missing out. Go to sales tackercom to become a member, ask questions, get fast answers. It's your experiences with Twentyzero likeminded professionals who's shaking things up in there organizations. Let's see you back on this podcast every other week to learn from the world's most destructive revenue intivators. So that was it, the first episode of the Revenue Innovators podcast. We were so excited about it. It's going to be remember it's every other Wednesday. Remember about our launch contest. If you leave a five star rating and review for the podcast into screenshot to marketing at Sales Haccercom, will send you a five dollar starbucks gifts carred. So listen and enjoy hits. Subscribe. Let us send you some coffee. Before we sign off, of course we need to thank our sponsors. Of course it's outreach. Outreach the number one sales engagement platform. Check out how outreach does outreach. Head to outreach, thatt IO, forward, slash on outreach to see what they've got going on. Also, thanks to pavilion, formally known as revenue collective, unlock your professional potential with a pavilion membership. Go to join pavilioncom to learn more and apply. And finally, thanks to sales navigator and Linkedin. Of course, today's virtual and selling environment demands a new kind of approach, prioritizing the buyer above all else. Request a free demo for Linkedin sales navigator at Business Dot Linkedincom for its last sales solutions. You can reach me Linkedincom for its lash the word in for its last time. If Jacobs, Mary and Harrish, thank you so much. Any parting words of wisdom, Harrish, will go to you first. Thanks and no, no, truly appreciate being able to lever address sales act for podcast for inaugural launch and looking forward to continue the conversation on the redneed innovator channel. Awesome, Mary. How about you? Yeah, thanks everyone for joining us and stay in touch with Harisha me. We're available on social direct message us. Let us know if you have ideas around how we can continue to prove the podcast, and also let us know if you want to be a featured guest. We're always looking forward to talking to folks who are out there innovating and breaking glass. Awesome, we'll talk to you next time. Folks, them, them, them, the, the,...

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