The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

172. How to Build Out Your Up Market Strategy w/ Ryan Staley


In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have repeat guest Ryan Staley, CEO at Whale Boss and fellow podcast host at Sales and Marketing Built Freedom. Join us for a great conversation about why you don’t have to boil the ocean when moving upmarket and the best ways to position your company for enterprise sales success.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Framing the economic impact of moving upmarket
  2. Why companies should verticalize
  3. Building an enterprise sales motion gradually
  4. Strategies for raising money… or not

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Ryan Staley & Whale Scale [3:15]
  2. Your biggest enterprise sales mistake [7:23]
  3. Implementing a winning deals-tracking system [14:30]
  4. Why your org doesn’t need funding [18:26]
  5. Paying it forward: shout-outs [28:55]
  6. Sam’s Corner [32:46] 

One, two, one, three, three, hey everybody. Sam Jacobs, welcome to the sales pyker podcast. We got a great show for you today. We've got an interview with Ryan's Daily Enterprise sales expert and somebody that really can teach people how to grow and Scill your company from an enterprise sales perspective. So or super excited about it. Before we get there, we want to thank our sponsors. We've got three for the show. Versus outreach art, which has been a longtime sponsor this podcast. We're excited to announce that their annual road show series only summit series is back in person this fall in Austin, Chicago, San Francisco, New York City in London. This year's theme is the rise of revenue innovators. Join a new cohort of revenue leaders who are transforming the world of buying and selling by arming their sellers with a single, unified engagement and intelligence platform. Get more details and save your spot at summit DOT outreached Ioh. We're also brought you by pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Take any one of our over fifteen different schools, including sales acceleration school for SDRs, chief revenue off their school, Chief Marketing Officer School and the newly announced chief customer officers school. For whatever your career track is, there's a school for you within pavilion. Unlock your professional potential at join PAVILIONCOM. And finally, Blue Board cash rewards. They feel like a slap in the face, don't they? That's why you got to check out blue boards incredible company. They provide experiential sales incentives and presidents club trips. It's the world's leading experiential sales recognition platform, offering top reps your choice of hand curated experiences, from skydiving to court site tickets, Michelin Star dining at places like French laundry to five star spot escapes. Do you need that that wonderful kind of reeky massage, or maybe a deep Swedish tissue massage? You can get that through blue board. For pleasuredons club, blueboard offers individual bucklist trips and luxury home goods, from Palaton bikes to swimming with whale, sharks and Cabo, Yoga Retreats and Bali to chasing the northern lights. Treat erupts like the Rock Stars they are. After they pick their favorite experiences. Is One of the best parts. It's not just that you pick this experience, it's that you get a concierge. So you get a dedicated blueboard concierge will plan all of your logistics and itinerary so you don't have to lift a single finger. CHECK THEM OUT PODCAST DOT blue boardcom to get your free demo. Now let's listen my conversation with Ryan's Daley. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show we've got Ryan Staley. Let me tell you about Ryan. He's the founder and CEO of a consulting company called whale boss. In two thousand he had his first success in business as an inside sales rep selling cutting edge technology and training to CEIOS, cetos and VP's of the largest investment banks and broke ridges in the world. After two and a half years, he shifted to a complex sales position for a privately held managed services provider that had no customers in Chicago. That's where Ryan's from, eventually becoming a multi year President's club winner and equity holder. That experience launched Ryan to leadership position in which he was responsible for transforming struggling business unit into the top performing office, creating an enterprise team from scratch and developing a recurring revenue engine. So now he is running whale boss. He's an expert and enterprise sales. He's also...

...the Chicago Chapter Head for Pavilion, which is, as everybody knows, I think, at this point, the company that I run. Ryan, we're excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the show. I am pump man. As you know, I love pavilion and I love salesacker. So this is an not going to match made in heaven. It's amazing. Yeah, I'm excited to be on the show. You've had a lot of great guests on so well, you're just one one more great guess. So I mentioned whale boss, but let's give you an opportunity tell us. What is whale boss? Do Give us this business that you run and that you started and run. Sure, man. So basically the name is is kind of created our crafted because we grew an enterprise team from zero to thirty million and and reoccurring revenue at my last company, when I was kind of tasked to create an enterprise sales motion from scratch, everything from the playbooks to the team, and so how we kind of survived, due to intense pressure from our CEO and inveassadors, was to constantly scale up and continue to bring in Wales. So right now what I do is I help tech startups or, you know, mature tech companies, basically scale and expand their revenue through what I call a revenue sprint, which is a three month consulting engagement so that they can implement a seven or eight figure sales system via three different methods that I've kind of coined and that were the first principles behind that revenue growth strategy. So that's what I'm doing right now. I love it. I love working with CEOS. It's so much fun and they like to make like to make shit happen in a really fast manner, and that aligns well with me. So yeah, man, that's that's what I've been doing. How long you been doing it? So I made the shift. Officially, I've been in business for a year. I made the shift to start working in the more directly with CEOS about six months ago. So yeah, awesome. Well, I mean, let's dive in, because I gives you know this is a topic enterprice sales that I think a lot of people are interested in. So first, you know, let's give you an opportunity. What are the is it a three step motion? Is that what you said? There's basically kind of three different tracks in Instam the way I look at them at is it's like all these tech companies, a lot of these tech companies, I should say, not all of them, right that I want to speak in absolutes, but the majority of tech companies that you see out there, they're either founded by a technical person that has a large influence or a sales driven, marking driven personality, and a lot of times their founder led in terms of sales until they get to a certain point. Now a lot of the folks I work with are not invested in by VC. I believe that there's a massive opportunity in the market to help people grow at an exponential rate without taking on funding, and there's a time at a place for funding, and it works well as well. However, there's a big need, because right now a lot of the folks I talk to you think that that's the only way, and so what I look that is I'm like, okay, I keep hearing this feedback. There's these tech companies are focused on the operating system...

...of their software or the operating system of their company via their software, their tach, but they don't have a sales operating system. And so when I look at that there's three main components and what I call is it's a whale scale operating system, it's a secondary sales operating system and it's referrals for revenue operating system. Those are the three main components that allow a company to scale massively in a short period of time, as long as they're implemented correctly. So we'll talk about the whales scale system. I'm interested in that one. I mean, I'm interested in all of them, but I guess you know, the fundamental question underpinning all of this is so many companies want to, quote unquote, move into the enterprise but don't understand quite what's necessary. So in your opinion, maybe thinking about the whale scale system as one of the examples, what is the path and what do you see? What do you think the biggest mistake companies make when they're trying to do enterprise sales? Yeah, so I can start off with that. I'll start off with the mistake first that that I could kind of talk through the path. If that's cool, that's how good? Yeah, it sounds great. All right, man. So one of the biggest mistakes that I see is a lot of companies think that they have to go and hire a big chunk of people right off the bat to, quote unquote, move up market or move into the enterprise. And so when I went through this process, I had folks and I had to be extremely resourceful because I didn't have of a big budget for hiring, and so I had a continually scale up in a reasonable manner without going out and hiring four or five really really talented experience people, because the folks I work with head zero experience. And so the method to do that is to basically look at your best customers, right in terms of size and in terms of profitability. Because, let's face it, Sam if the really big customers but they take up ninety percent your time and the profitability sucks, you don't want to replicate those right. And so what I do is look at that and then really have a design focus and strategy around continuing to expand and multiply your best customers. When I say best customer, I mean your ICP, I mean your top five year top ten customers, and if you do that a lot of times you could double the size of those top customers. Is Law, as it's a focused strategy for the company and in your prospecting, customer profiling and segmentation when you look at different verticals. Now the biggest mistake that everybody that I see, not everybody, once again a lot of people make is they try and go all in and develop whole new team with that, whereas they could gradually jump up market pretty fast by earmarking some of their best reps to invest maybe thirty out of seventy percent of their focus on those bigger companies and then continue to scale up and then once it hits a maturity point, you could have a whole dead caded team around that. But what about the sales motion? You know what is what do people assume is...

...different about the enterprise sales motion like, well, you know, the same sort of thing. Like a lot of companies that are moving up market right there hast and be their mid market. They're in a much more transactional sale. They're not used to dealing with procurement, they're not used to dealing with Info Sec and with all of the different compliance requirements. What do you think is the mechanism to evolve your sales motion so that you can be effective in replicating your top customers? That's a great question, Sam. I mean, when you're trying to do that, I think it's really, really critical to focus on verticalization when you do that, and what I mean by that is don't boil the ocean. A lot of times what I see when I'm working with clients is they'll say, yeah, we work with all different verticals. They might have two hundred clients or three hundred clients or foreheurn clients. However, sixty percent of the revenue comes from two verticals, right, so go all in on that and expand on that and be really targeted with that. And then a couple other things. Actually, probably the single biggest mistake that I see people make time in and time out when it comes to the actual mechanics of it are when you're looking at basically quantifying the size of the problem. And I know that sounds simple, but people will go through and they will sales executives, well, we'll meet with people, or says, leadership will meet with people and they will basically identify, you know, okay, this is a good candidate. But one of the things when they're doing that is they basically forget to really really continue to expand. I kind of lost my tray train of thought here, Sam. So Oh yeah, I'm sorry. Qualifying the size of problem. There you go. I'm back a black out, but you get your email strength as like frank the tank when he gave a speech at old school. You know, is like what happened? Is blacked out. And so they'll have these sales processes that are a year, two years long, three years long. I saw what company had a thirty six month sales cycle for a million dollar deal, which is insane. Right in said that should be right six to it to nine months. And so they don't tangibly quantify the outcome of the problem that they're trying to solve and have that validated by the customer. That's the number one biggest mistake, and what I mean by that is, like, get the customer to assign a tangible dollar value and a tangible time value to the problem you're going to solve and have that validated up and down the chain. That's the biggest mistake. And your point is that they if they do do that, it's there there undersizing or underscoping the impact, and so maybe that leads to delayed or longer sales cycles because the problem isn't perceived to be important enough. Well, it's just convoluted, it's not clarified. You know, and I'll give you an example this, like I was working with a company the other day and... was a software company, software development, custom company, custom software development, and they basically create solutions for fortune five hundred companies, really custom software so they can implement it fast. And this person is amazing, amazing at building relationships and connecting at individual level. However, one of the things that they were missing is the solution might be two, three hundredzeros right, and they get hammered by procurement on pricing. However, the reason for that is because after the fact, once that we talked, he went back and identified that that software solution that they created open up twenty to forty million dollars and revenue based on a new product offering that they were creating. Now, if you just say hey, this is great and this is going to grow revenue, that's cool, but if you say hey, this could potentially grow revenue by twenty to forty million, based on projections that your team did. That totally disarms pro currement in terms of saying three hundred thousand dollars is too much, right, do you think it's too little? And that context three hundred thou and this. So yeah, yeah, you should be charging way more. What's a rule of thumb on impact to price in your opinion? Yeah, and there's there's two ways to look at this. Sam. I think you could look at x for impact. I mean that's what I try and do with my customers. If they invested, you know, a thousand dollars, I want to give them at least tenzero back for every dollar. However, companies have overhead as well. So you could look at revenue or you could look at profit. Right, said a ten x profit. So that's kind of how I look at it either in terms of outcomes. What do you do to if again, you know, thinking about this movement of market, because it's just top of mine for so many different people and be so they whether it's nine months, whether it's three years or thirty six months, it's definitely longer than you know, a thirty or sixty day mid market sales cycle. So a company in a CEO and a sales team is moving from a period where they get lots of discrete kind of like outcomes. They get a lot of data because they are either winning the deal or losing the deal on a much more accelerated time frame. But in enterprise sales you don't actually know whether you're winning or losing for quite a while. So how do you put in a system so that you can figure out that you're tracking towards winning the deal, even if that win is, you know, six to nine months to twelve months in your future? Yeah, it's a great question and it was so funny because, like when I first started and we were working and trying to build this motion, that was one of the things that came up, because the CEO is like, we don't have the results yet, and so I'm like, okay, how am I going to convey to him why this is our how this is successful so far, because I knew we were making progress. Right. So instead of just looking at the overall outcome from a revenue perspective, we looked at mile stones by deal stage right.

So it was a combination of the overall pipe size and then the goals in terms of what we were getting. So I guess to answer your question more specifically, that's on the internal side. When you look at it externally from a customer there's certain benchmarks that you have that you need them to hit at each stage in the cycle and that's that needs to be tracked from a qualitative and quantitative perspective very specifically to validate that it's a good opportunity because, Sam, if you're working big opportunities, reps will die on the vine if they're not qualifying. I'm hard enough, because they could just suck the life and time Audi right. Yeah, so I would say it's speed by step in the sale cycle and different benchmarks by stage, and I could go deeper on that if you want to, sure a little deeper. They'll be super helpful because I know people are listening are probably taking some note. So what's a good example and, by the way, how many stages is your does it? Maybe people would assume out there that like, Oh, if it's a twelve month sale cycle, that means we have to have, you know, fifteen stages instead of four, but my experiences you can still have four stages, even if they each take a longer time. What do you think? Yeah, so in terms of stages and that I can hit on that first point of what you what you ask. But like, if you look at stages, I think you know obviously there's the initially meeting, the first appointment, and I think that needs to be qualified, or first appointment with a decision maker or, if you're selling to a company that's like fifteen billion and revenue or three billion and revenue, the key, key person, like the highest person within reason that you can get to, because you're not always going to get to the CIO of a three billion dollar company right when you're selling a deal, depending on the deal size. So first appointment, I think. Then you go through what I call it could be a demo if it's just ass solution, but I think before the demo one of the most critical pieces is an assessment to really quantify that hard value Roi outcome, and then from there you can incorporate a demo because then you provide a customized demo. Then the fourth stage would be what I call a strategy meeting. So that's strategy meeting is validation of outcomes as well as opportunities with potential. Roy more like a high level basically pencil cell on what you're doing and get verbal confirmation that the solution you put together is design appropriately, and then the next is proposal stage, negotiation close. So well, a few more stages than kind of what you talked about, but that's kind of how I look at it. Yeah, makes sense. Let me ask you a question. You know, you sort of said I work with a lot of companies and I try to teach them that they don't need funding. Walk us through that process and what's is it that you have something against funding or you know, just give us your perspective on the on the market right now, because right now it's flush with capital. Everybody's raising money, everybody's getting acquired. I've never seen so much, you know, activity in the space that we're both in.

So what's your perspective on financing and how do you help companies get there without having to sell equity? It's a great question, Sam and, and why I focus on that or I think it's an opportunity because kind of the way I look at it is a lot of the founders are focused on getting funding and getting ready for funding before they've even completely established success. And you know, when you look at the numbers it's pretty disturbing and some of this data needs to be updated, but this was taken from tech crunch earlier. I think it was up to two thousand and ten, so it's definitely earlier data. But basically seen series a right there, or seed I should say, basically has a failure to exit at ninety seven percent of the time and I was just like, once I saw that, I'm like, Oh my God, ninety seven percent failure to exit right, and then you look at its series a and they're failure to exits like almost eighty nine percent. And so you know why I I've been through the other side of the table where I've been in a through multiple private equity transactions, and when I've seen the investors come in, I've been an equity partner and it's been cool. However, it's massively change the companies that I work for and multiple ways, like sales cop is gotten destroyed and basically the culture. I've seen it destroyed in multiple times. So that's been my experience. And then, to top it off, I talked to actually did a podcast about this. I talked to a CEO who went through a three hundred million dollar exit through VC, and he told me the story of the financial engineering that gets put together so that there's no downside for the investors but there's a lot of downside for the CEO. And so what happened Sam, and this was like really eye opening, is basically he told me that, basically, they had ten million dollars that they put in, that that BC fun put in. They got ninety million from other investors. They bought the company for a hundred million right, they grew it too close to a three hundred million dollar number, exited and what happened is they they made that spread off of a ten million dollar risk. Now, on top of that, they got fifteen percent interest every year and the founder who started the company got fired and they threw a party because the CEO that was there lasted three years and that was the longest any CEO ever lasted. So I heard this and I'm like, okay, I just want to give folks another option that and, like I said, there's cases where funny works out great, right, but I want to give people another option to exist so that they could turn one dollar and a ten dollars without needing to get money from other people to do that, and obviously sist. Yeah, it does. And obviously the other option is getting funding from your customers by...

...selling them products instead of equity exactly. You just you get cash full from your customers, or you could do crowd fundy, or there's just so many other options. But, like I'm telling you, Sam the markets brainwashed. From people I hear it is like we got to get fundy, we got to get fun. I'm like why? I'm like, you can't turn one dollar and a ten dollars. How you going to turn a million and a ten million? It's a good question. You know what I mean? Man, it's just like what now, like it's different like now. Now, granted, there's reasons for funding. When, in my opinion, right when you start to grow and you got you got a good revenue and you're like, all right, we're going to pour gas on this right, there's a lot of visible UNICORNS, is what they call that, have gotten funding later by doing that, and that's a great model as well. However, it's more for the early stage. Folks are like this is the only option I have, and then they convert and they have a boss when the whole reason why they started a business was to not have a boss, right. They wanted to be their own boss, and now they got to answer to investors and then they get fired half the time. It's just this is mind bending to me. Yeah, I mean, I hear you. I didn't want a boss. Now I have a boss, but I I nobody should worry that. You know, the story that you just shared is not. Is Not what's going to be happening with with my company. Well, it too did. I mean Sam's a little different because, like, you grew the RC up to a very healthy level. You know, it was sustained organic growth that you did. I'm talking like people early stay just throwing money out of problem and expected it to solve everything. And so tolely different situation. Yeah, no, you're right, but to the point, you also just gotta terms or real liquidation preferences are real, you know, and investors are that their job is to make money. So yeah, yeah, that's true. That their whole purpose is. Like how can we protect you know, when you look at it, comparing venture capital to private equity, to any up to a loan from a bank, I mean all of the shitty stuff notwithstanding, venture capital still is the most generous for I mean to the point right. They're like people writing checks to people with no companies. So, you know, it's a pretty optimistic thing to do to her to write, you know, first time founder a million dollar check when you know there might not even be a product in place. Yeah, Ryan, we're almost at the end of our time together. One thing I want to ask you, though. You've got this phrase that you know we were talking before. You have this concept of perfect customer prosperity. Tell me what you mean by that. I like that phrase. Yeah, Matt. So, what I see is a massive opportunity. Is Company is always worried. A lot of companies are worried. I can accept speaking in generalities. You could slap me when we get off the it's okay. I mean, don't hear you're a little overla concerned, like nobody assumes that you're speaking for all mankind. You know, we understand. We can place your opinions and context, but I hear you. Yeah, so perfect customer prosperity amount, I mean what that's focus out of that goes deeper into whale scaling, where companies will have strategic focus on expanding their revenue. However, it goes back to the twenty rule to the point where you even have a Mug it says a twenty on it.

There's not a design strategy most of the time to accelerate the quantity and size of the customers that produced eighty percent of the revenue. I mean, Sam, I've never seen it. It's just absolutely crazy and I'm like like, that's how we grew the company so fast with only four sales up and we got the thirty million and annual recurring revenue and five and a half years with people that never sold before. And it was just because, you know, not just because there's a lot of other reasons, but we had no marketing, we had no strrs, we had I mean, dude, our processes were like popsicle sticks and duct tape. It was terrible. And so the big reason, though, is we kept leveling up those top five customers. So your one, we had twentyzero a month and annual recurring revenue. Those were kind of a the area we've played in. Then we bumped up to seventy five tho a month. Then it was a hundred and fifty. Then I got the three hundred then it got to six hundred Tho and that that's kind of what where I think everybody focuses on ICP, and I believe PCP as the way to go because instead of just looking at all your prospects the same, you look at the hyper valuable ones and have your focus, in your energy, in your team, really lasers, laser scoped on those and everything that they need, and that's what'll create insane growth. And there's a company. If you're heard a palenteer before. Of course I've heard of palent here, all right. So there what I think? I saw the one point one billion in revenue. Yeah, there, man, and I could. I saw something that Jason Lumpkin put out on it. He did like a quick rundown on from SASTOR, who did a quick rundown on that, and one of the things that he said in his piece was that sixty six percent of palenteers one billion dollars in revenue was from twenty clients and one of the clients is the government of the United States of America. Let that sink in like and then the other thing that was beautiful about this, Sam is that the size that those those top customers were growing was that like thirty three percent per year. So their biggest customers. You have just kept compounding growth and sales forces doing a lot on this. Even service now is as well, but their leveraging their biggest customers and they're not just getting those big customers. You keep expanding those big customers year and year out, and so that's why I think it's a beautiful strategy that you could do even when your resource constrained, as long as you just have the focus, energy and time on it. Well, it's a powerful insight because you're right. Everybody so focused on new logo acquisition that sometimes you forget to tend to the people that you've already acquired, make sure that they're happy and see if you can expand the relationship. There's seven x cheaper, man, you know what I mean. It's seven times cheaper to get an existing customer to spend more with you, and that's where the like the whole secondary sales system, our secondary sales operating system I talked about, people like this is a big mistake too, and I know you're going to you're going to give me the old hook like they have on the stage, like the old school hook, because I'm rambling,...

...but I want to squeeze on them. On I play, I'm going to play the the music that they play at the opera. Yeah, the wrap it up box like a Dave Chappelle. So anyways, dude, like companies will have it ninety percent, ninety percent retention rate, and these will be Fortyzero, fifty hundredzerollar deals right, and they don't freaking talk to their customers after they sell it to him. These customers say, and I'm like, do you know how many referrals you could systemize by doing that? Like, do you know how much remedy you can expand if you just dropped an existing process, like a second sales process, on on your existing customers? And, Oh, by the way, it's going to increase satisfaction. Oh by the way, you're going to get more ratings on g two and, Oh, by the way, you're going to continually expand and get product development feedback on what works and what doesn't. So I'm really passionate about as you can tell. But it's like, you know, there's lowhanding fruit and then there's fruit on the ground, and that's what I consider food on the ground. I love it, but that's interesting. We got to pick up the fruit on the ground or rots. Yeah, exactly, you nailed it. There you go. All Right, Ryan. The last thing we want to do is care about some of your influences, people, books, investors, CEOS, people that you think we should know about, if you're tasked with the responsibility of paying it forward and letting us know about people that had a positive impact on your life in any form, and you don't have to have met them. They could be you, could be Tom Hanks or whatever. WHO COMES TO MIND? Yeah, so the great question, Sam. I love growth, man. It's one of my core human needs and I value it and once it flipped me on, it's changed my life. So I love the fact that you ask that question. So a great, great book that I read if you really want to completely transform your thinking, and this book has been recommended by multiple billionaires. It's only thirty six pages and it's called you squared. Have you ever heard of it or read it before? No, I haven't. Yeah, it's only thirty six pages and a mentor of mine, a gentleman by the name of Myering, golden, he actually sold, he had he sold three million dollars in a sixty minute speech before. So really, really awesome and he recommended that. It's a book you read weekly, and so I've read that Book Multiple Times. Only thirty six pages and it really gets you to stop and think. So you squared, while you or the no, yeah, while you square, great. And it's it's a really, really, really great book that's Super Simple, awesome but really impactful, like you just got to stop and let the stuff sink in, though. So that's one. I think it's by price Pritchett. I believe this name is, so that that's someone who I have a lot of respect for. And then, you know, man like at one of my deepest, darkest points, and this is when things were tough and different stages of my career, mentor of mine who another mentor of mine, basically said Hey, dude, you should check out this personal development event and I'm like,...

I didn't even know what personal ailment was, Sam. I mean this is like six years ago. I was like, what the Hell's personal development? What are you talking about? Like a conference, right? And so that was Tony Robbins and I thought, think his stuff is very, very insightful for that. Yeah, and then someone I respect when you look at from a business the founder that has bootstrapped to heat, bootstrapt from zero to a hundred million with click funnels, and that's Russell Brunson, and he's built like a cult like following. So just really different people that are unique that I've gotten a lot of value from over the years. It did seem to give first and take second, and I love that. Awesome Ryan, it's been great having you on the show. If folks want to get in touch with you, what's the best way? How can they get in touch with you? Yes, the best way, SAM is. I actually put together a special resource they could contact me on. You know, Ryan S Daey Dot I. Oh, of course I'm active on Linkedin and and other things as well. That's my website. That's got different content. However, I got a resource that aligns well with kind of what we talked about, and basically it's the top ten questions needed to unlock any enterprize deal, and so I'll share that. It's a just a free resource. It's at www dot sm built, freedomcom, forward slash pod. It's www that sm built freedomcom, forward slash Pod, and I give that resource to people listen to my podcast. The sales and marketing built freedom podcast as well, so pre resource could help you. It was taken directly from Fortune One hundred, fortune five thousand. I'm sorry, Fortune One hundred, fortune five hundred, exactly as on their exact criteria that they use to evaluate people when they're trying to sell them an enterprise deal. Fantastic, Ryan. Thanks so much for being on the show and we'll talk down Friday for Friday fundamentals. Awesome, SAM, looking forward to it. Hey everybody, it's SAM's corner. Great Conversation with Ryan. Couple things just to point out. First of all, everybody wants to move up market but, as Ryan plant it out, when you do it, the number one problem, he said, is that you're not framing the economic impact of that your solution to your buyer aggressively enough and you're not getting them to agree to that number and confirm it and up and down the chain, the power line and all the people that you're talking to in the course of the sales process, hammering and anchoring on that number. And if you don't do that, if you don't size the problem, then your solution can be stalled, it can be chucked aside because it can't be a priority if they don't understand the economic impact. So make sure that you do that. The other thing that Ryan talked about is just that too many companies don't ferticalize, they spray and pray. You know, enterprise means any company over a thousand employees and boom they're off to the racist. There's there are thousands and thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of companies that have more than a thousand or tenzero employees. So it's not a very useful focusing mechanism. Instead, try to pick your segment, look at who your best customer is, and Ryan said it's not just the company that pays... the most, it's the company that is also the most profitable, because you could have a company that pays you the most and it's just a huge pain in the ass and you know every day their hammer and help desk or filling out a ticket or call in somebody and just being really, really difficult to work with. So it's not just the company that pays you, and Monts is probably going to be the company that pays you the most, but also the company that is also a great customer. And then try to mimic and replicate that and try to do it slowly. You don't have to hire fifty people and build an enterprice sales motion and one felse, whoop. You can do it over time and gradually, still quickly, but gradually and organically, by understanding your existing customers and then mimicking that and going forward from there. And you know, Bryan's point is try to do that. Try to fund your business through to revenue as opposed to selling equity or debt and your business, because once you do that you have owners and you have bosses and you need to report and that can contort the dynamics of the business. So you know, not every company needs to raise money right away, especially at the seed stage. There are other paths to creating a great company. You know, my company, pavilion, we didn't raise money for five years. We finally raised around and closed it in April. We raise a twenty five million dollar around, but before that we'd been profitable. We had a team, thirty five people, all of it funded from our members and our members being happy be with the experience that we delivered and as a consequence, that's how we funded the business. So there are other paths to financing Your Business and financing your growth, and Ryan's point is maybe consider enter price sales as one path, but you don't have to boil the ocean. Go after in segments and sequences so that you can do it logically over time. So good conversation. If you're not a part of the sales hacker community yet, you're missing out. Any sales professional can join as a member to ask questions, get immediate answers and share experiences with like minded be to be sales pros. Jump in and started discussion with more than Seventeen Tho sales professionals at sales hackercom. Once again, thanks to our sponsors, outreach, the world's leading sales engagement platform. Had to outreach dot IOT forward slash on outreach to see how outreach does outreach. We're also sponsored by pavilion leaders at every stage you can get started at join Pavilioncom to unlock your professional potential. And we're sponsored by ambition. Every sales leader feels the pressure to predictably close more deals. Take control with ambition. Go to ambitioncom forwards sales hacker. There's a few other things I'm supposed to say I'm supposed to say give us five stars. I would just worry that that ship is saled. I think we're at four point five. Somebody gave US force, but you know, if you could give us a five week appreciate it. And if you want to get in touch from the of course you can email me. Sam At joined pavilioncom. I'm happy to help you need any you need anything, you just let me know. Otherwise I'll talk to you next time.

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