The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 5 months ago

172. How to Build Out Your Up Market Strategy w/ Ryan Staley

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have repeat guest Ryan Staley, CEO at Whale Boss and fellow podcast host at Sales and Marketing Built Freedom. Join us for a great conversation about why you don’t have to boil the ocean when moving upmarket and the best ways to position your company for enterprise sales success.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Framing the economic impact of moving upmarket
  2. Why companies should verticalize
  3. Building an enterprise sales motion gradually
  4. Strategies for raising money… or not

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Ryan Staley & Whale Scale [3:15]
  2. Your biggest enterprise sales mistake [7:23]
  3. Implementing a winning deals-tracking system [14:30]
  4. Why your org doesn’t need funding [18:26]
  5. Paying it forward: shout-outs [28:55]
  6. Sam’s Corner [32:46] 

One, two, one, three, three, hey everybody. Sam Jacobs, welcome to the sales pyker podcast.We got a great show for you today. We've got an interview withRyan's Daily Enterprise sales expert and somebody that really can teach people how to growand Scill your company from an enterprise sales perspective. So or super excited aboutit. Before we get there, we want to thank our sponsors. We'vegot three for the show. Versus outreach art, which has been a longtimesponsor this podcast. We're excited to announce that their annual road show series onlysummit series is back in person this fall in Austin, Chicago, San Francisco, New York City in London. This year's theme is the rise of revenueinnovators. Join a new cohort of revenue leaders who are transforming the world ofbuying and selling by arming their sellers with a single, unified engagement and intelligenceplatform. Get more details and save your spot at summit DOT outreached Ioh.We're also brought you by pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more outof your career. Take any one of our over fifteen different schools, includingsales acceleration school for SDRs, chief revenue off their school, Chief Marketing OfficerSchool and the newly announced chief customer officers school. For whatever your career trackis, there's a school for you within pavilion. Unlock your professional potential atjoin PAVILIONCOM. And finally, Blue Board cash rewards. They feel like aslap in the face, don't they? That's why you got to check outblue boards incredible company. They provide experiential sales incentives and presidents club trips.It's the world's leading experiential sales recognition platform, offering top reps your choice of handcurated experiences, from skydiving to court site tickets, Michelin Star dining atplaces like French laundry to five star spot escapes. Do you need that thatwonderful kind of reeky massage, or maybe a deep Swedish tissue massage? Youcan get that through blue board. For pleasuredons club, blueboard offers individual bucklisttrips and luxury home goods, from Palaton bikes to swimming with whale, sharksand Cabo, Yoga Retreats and Bali to chasing the northern lights. Treat eruptslike the Rock Stars they are. After they pick their favorite experiences. IsOne of the best parts. It's not just that you pick this experience,it's that you get a concierge. So you get a dedicated blueboard concierge willplan all of your logistics and itinerary so you don't have to lift a singlefinger. CHECK THEM OUT PODCAST DOT blue boardcom to get your free demo.Now let's listen my conversation with Ryan's Daley. Hey everybody, it's Sam Jacobs.Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today on the show we've got Ryan Staley. Let me tell you about Ryan. He's the founder and CEO of aconsulting company called whale boss. In two thousand he had his first success inbusiness as an inside sales rep selling cutting edge technology and training to CEIOS,cetos and VP's of the largest investment banks and broke ridges in the world.After two and a half years, he shifted to a complex sales position fora privately held managed services provider that had no customers in Chicago. That's whereRyan's from, eventually becoming a multi year President's club winner and equity holder.That experience launched Ryan to leadership position in which he was responsible for transforming strugglingbusiness unit into the top performing office, creating an enterprise team from scratch anddeveloping a recurring revenue engine. So now he is running whale boss. He'san expert and enterprise sales. He's also...

...the Chicago Chapter Head for Pavilion,which is, as everybody knows, I think, at this point, thecompany that I run. Ryan, we're excited to have you on the show. Welcome to the show. I am pump man. As you know,I love pavilion and I love salesacker. So this is an not going tomatch made in heaven. It's amazing. Yeah, I'm excited to be onthe show. You've had a lot of great guests on so well, you'rejust one one more great guess. So I mentioned whale boss, but let'sgive you an opportunity tell us. What is whale boss? Do Give usthis business that you run and that you started and run. Sure, man. So basically the name is is kind of created our crafted because we grewan enterprise team from zero to thirty million and and reoccurring revenue at my lastcompany, when I was kind of tasked to create an enterprise sales motion fromscratch, everything from the playbooks to the team, and so how we kindof survived, due to intense pressure from our CEO and inveassadors, was toconstantly scale up and continue to bring in Wales. So right now what Ido is I help tech startups or, you know, mature tech companies,basically scale and expand their revenue through what I call a revenue sprint, whichis a three month consulting engagement so that they can implement a seven or eightfigure sales system via three different methods that I've kind of coined and that werethe first principles behind that revenue growth strategy. So that's what I'm doing right now. I love it. I love working with CEOS. It's so muchfun and they like to make like to make shit happen in a really fastmanner, and that aligns well with me. So yeah, man, that's that'swhat I've been doing. How long you been doing it? So Imade the shift. Officially, I've been in business for a year. Imade the shift to start working in the more directly with CEOS about six monthsago. So yeah, awesome. Well, I mean, let's dive in,because I gives you know this is a topic enterprice sales that I thinka lot of people are interested in. So first, you know, let'sgive you an opportunity. What are the is it a three step motion?Is that what you said? There's basically kind of three different tracks in Instamthe way I look at them at is it's like all these tech companies,a lot of these tech companies, I should say, not all of them, right that I want to speak in absolutes, but the majority of techcompanies that you see out there, they're either founded by a technical person thathas a large influence or a sales driven, marking driven personality, and a lotof times their founder led in terms of sales until they get to acertain point. Now a lot of the folks I work with are not investedin by VC. I believe that there's a massive opportunity in the market tohelp people grow at an exponential rate without taking on funding, and there's atime at a place for funding, and it works well as well. However, there's a big need, because right now a lot of the folks Italk to you think that that's the only way, and so what I lookthat is I'm like, okay, I keep hearing this feedback. There's thesetech companies are focused on the operating system...

...of their software or the operating systemof their company via their software, their tach, but they don't have asales operating system. And so when I look at that there's three main componentsand what I call is it's a whale scale operating system, it's a secondarysales operating system and it's referrals for revenue operating system. Those are the threemain components that allow a company to scale massively in a short period of time, as long as they're implemented correctly. So we'll talk about the whales scalesystem. I'm interested in that one. I mean, I'm interested in allof them, but I guess you know, the fundamental question underpinning all of thisis so many companies want to, quote unquote, move into the enterprisebut don't understand quite what's necessary. So in your opinion, maybe thinking aboutthe whale scale system as one of the examples, what is the path andwhat do you see? What do you think the biggest mistake companies make whenthey're trying to do enterprise sales? Yeah, so I can start off with that. I'll start off with the mistake first that that I could kind oftalk through the path. If that's cool, that's how good? Yeah, itsounds great. All right, man. So one of the biggest mistakes thatI see is a lot of companies think that they have to go andhire a big chunk of people right off the bat to, quote unquote,move up market or move into the enterprise. And so when I went through thisprocess, I had folks and I had to be extremely resourceful because Ididn't have of a big budget for hiring, and so I had a continually scaleup in a reasonable manner without going out and hiring four or five reallyreally talented experience people, because the folks I work with head zero experience.And so the method to do that is to basically look at your best customers, right in terms of size and in terms of profitability. Because, let'sface it, Sam if the really big customers but they take up ninety percentyour time and the profitability sucks, you don't want to replicate those right.And so what I do is look at that and then really have a designfocus and strategy around continuing to expand and multiply your best customers. When Isay best customer, I mean your ICP, I mean your top five year topten customers, and if you do that a lot of times you coulddouble the size of those top customers. Is Law, as it's a focusedstrategy for the company and in your prospecting, customer profiling and segmentation when you lookat different verticals. Now the biggest mistake that everybody that I see,not everybody, once again a lot of people make is they try and goall in and develop whole new team with that, whereas they could gradually jumpup market pretty fast by earmarking some of their best reps to invest maybe thirtyout of seventy percent of their focus on those bigger companies and then continue toscale up and then once it hits a maturity point, you could have awhole dead caded team around that. But what about the sales motion? Youknow what is what do people assume is...

...different about the enterprise sales motion like, well, you know, the same sort of thing. Like a lotof companies that are moving up market right there hast and be their mid market. They're in a much more transactional sale. They're not used to dealing with procurement, they're not used to dealing with Info Sec and with all of thedifferent compliance requirements. What do you think is the mechanism to evolve your salesmotion so that you can be effective in replicating your top customers? That's agreat question, Sam. I mean, when you're trying to do that,I think it's really, really critical to focus on verticalization when you do that, and what I mean by that is don't boil the ocean. A lotof times what I see when I'm working with clients is they'll say, yeah, we work with all different verticals. They might have two hundred clients orthree hundred clients or foreheurn clients. However, sixty percent of the revenue comes fromtwo verticals, right, so go all in on that and expand onthat and be really targeted with that. And then a couple other things.Actually, probably the single biggest mistake that I see people make time in andtime out when it comes to the actual mechanics of it are when you're lookingat basically quantifying the size of the problem. And I know that sounds simple,but people will go through and they will sales executives, well, we'llmeet with people, or says, leadership will meet with people and they willbasically identify, you know, okay, this is a good candidate. Butone of the things when they're doing that is they basically forget to really reallycontinue to expand. I kind of lost my tray train of thought here,Sam. So Oh yeah, I'm sorry. Qualifying the size of problem. Thereyou go. I'm back a black out, but you get your emailstrength as like frank the tank when he gave a speech at old school.You know, is like what happened? Is blacked out. And so they'llhave these sales processes that are a year, two years long, three years long. I saw what company had a thirty six month sales cycle for amillion dollar deal, which is insane. Right in said that should be rightsix to it to nine months. And so they don't tangibly quantify the outcomeof the problem that they're trying to solve and have that validated by the customer. That's the number one biggest mistake, and what I mean by that is, like, get the customer to assign a tangible dollar value and a tangibletime value to the problem you're going to solve and have that validated up anddown the chain. That's the biggest mistake. And your point is that they ifthey do do that, it's there there undersizing or underscoping the impact,and so maybe that leads to delayed or longer sales cycles because the problem isn'tperceived to be important enough. Well, it's just convoluted, it's not clarified. You know, and I'll give you an example this, like I wasworking with a company the other day and...

...it was a software company, softwaredevelopment, custom company, custom software development, and they basically create solutions for fortunefive hundred companies, really custom software so they can implement it fast.And this person is amazing, amazing at building relationships and connecting at individual level. However, one of the things that they were missing is the solution mightbe two, three hundredzeros right, and they get hammered by procurement on pricing. However, the reason for that is because after the fact, once thatwe talked, he went back and identified that that software solution that they createdopen up twenty to forty million dollars and revenue based on a new product offeringthat they were creating. Now, if you just say hey, this isgreat and this is going to grow revenue, that's cool, but if you sayhey, this could potentially grow revenue by twenty to forty million, basedon projections that your team did. That totally disarms pro currement in terms ofsaying three hundred thousand dollars is too much, right, do you think it's toolittle? And that context three hundred thou and this. So yeah,yeah, you should be charging way more. What's a rule of thumb on impactto price in your opinion? Yeah, and there's there's two ways to lookat this. Sam. I think you could look at x for impact. I mean that's what I try and do with my customers. If theyinvested, you know, a thousand dollars, I want to give them at leasttenzero back for every dollar. However, companies have overhead as well. Soyou could look at revenue or you could look at profit. Right,said a ten x profit. So that's kind of how I look at iteither in terms of outcomes. What do you do to if again, youknow, thinking about this movement of market, because it's just top of mine forso many different people and be so they whether it's nine months, whetherit's three years or thirty six months, it's definitely longer than you know,a thirty or sixty day mid market sales cycle. So a company in aCEO and a sales team is moving from a period where they get lots ofdiscrete kind of like outcomes. They get a lot of data because they areeither winning the deal or losing the deal on a much more accelerated time frame. But in enterprise sales you don't actually know whether you're winning or losing forquite a while. So how do you put in a system so that youcan figure out that you're tracking towards winning the deal, even if that winis, you know, six to nine months to twelve months in your future? Yeah, it's a great question and it was so funny because, likewhen I first started and we were working and trying to build this motion,that was one of the things that came up, because the CEO is like, we don't have the results yet, and so I'm like, okay,how am I going to convey to him why this is our how this issuccessful so far, because I knew we were making progress. Right. Soinstead of just looking at the overall outcome from a revenue perspective, we lookedat mile stones by deal stage right.

So it was a combination of theoverall pipe size and then the goals in terms of what we were getting.So I guess to answer your question more specifically, that's on the internal side. When you look at it externally from a customer there's certain benchmarks that youhave that you need them to hit at each stage in the cycle and that'sthat needs to be tracked from a qualitative and quantitative perspective very specifically to validatethat it's a good opportunity because, Sam, if you're working big opportunities, repswill die on the vine if they're not qualifying. I'm hard enough,because they could just suck the life and time Audi right. Yeah, soI would say it's speed by step in the sale cycle and different benchmarks bystage, and I could go deeper on that if you want to, surea little deeper. They'll be super helpful because I know people are listening areprobably taking some note. So what's a good example and, by the way, how many stages is your does it? Maybe people would assume out there thatlike, Oh, if it's a twelve month sale cycle, that meanswe have to have, you know, fifteen stages instead of four, butmy experiences you can still have four stages, even if they each take a longertime. What do you think? Yeah, so in terms of stagesand that I can hit on that first point of what you what you ask. But like, if you look at stages, I think you know obviouslythere's the initially meeting, the first appointment, and I think that needs to bequalified, or first appointment with a decision maker or, if you're sellingto a company that's like fifteen billion and revenue or three billion and revenue,the key, key person, like the highest person within reason that you canget to, because you're not always going to get to the CIO of athree billion dollar company right when you're selling a deal, depending on the dealsize. So first appointment, I think. Then you go through what I callit could be a demo if it's just ass solution, but I thinkbefore the demo one of the most critical pieces is an assessment to really quantifythat hard value Roi outcome, and then from there you can incorporate a demobecause then you provide a customized demo. Then the fourth stage would be whatI call a strategy meeting. So that's strategy meeting is validation of outcomes aswell as opportunities with potential. Roy more like a high level basically pencil cellon what you're doing and get verbal confirmation that the solution you put together isdesign appropriately, and then the next is proposal stage, negotiation close. Sowell, a few more stages than kind of what you talked about, butthat's kind of how I look at it. Yeah, makes sense. Let meask you a question. You know, you sort of said I work witha lot of companies and I try to teach them that they don't needfunding. Walk us through that process and what's is it that you have somethingagainst funding or you know, just give us your perspective on the on themarket right now, because right now it's flush with capital. Everybody's raising money, everybody's getting acquired. I've never seen so much, you know, activityin the space that we're both in.

So what's your perspective on financing andhow do you help companies get there without having to sell equity? It's agreat question, Sam and, and why I focus on that or I thinkit's an opportunity because kind of the way I look at it is a lotof the founders are focused on getting funding and getting ready for funding before they'veeven completely established success. And you know, when you look at the numbers it'spretty disturbing and some of this data needs to be updated, but thiswas taken from tech crunch earlier. I think it was up to two thousandand ten, so it's definitely earlier data. But basically seen series a right there, or seed I should say, basically has a failure to exit atninety seven percent of the time and I was just like, once I sawthat, I'm like, Oh my God, ninety seven percent failure to exit right, and then you look at its series a and they're failure to exitslike almost eighty nine percent. And so you know why I I've been throughthe other side of the table where I've been in a through multiple private equitytransactions, and when I've seen the investors come in, I've been an equitypartner and it's been cool. However, it's massively change the companies that Iwork for and multiple ways, like sales cop is gotten destroyed and basically theculture. I've seen it destroyed in multiple times. So that's been my experience. And then, to top it off, I talked to actually did a podcastabout this. I talked to a CEO who went through a three hundredmillion dollar exit through VC, and he told me the story of the financialengineering that gets put together so that there's no downside for the investors but there'sa lot of downside for the CEO. And so what happened Sam, andthis was like really eye opening, is basically he told me that, basically, they had ten million dollars that they put in, that that BC funput in. They got ninety million from other investors. They bought the companyfor a hundred million right, they grew it too close to a three hundredmillion dollar number, exited and what happened is they they made that spread offof a ten million dollar risk. Now, on top of that, they gotfifteen percent interest every year and the founder who started the company got firedand they threw a party because the CEO that was there lasted three years andthat was the longest any CEO ever lasted. So I heard this and I'm like, okay, I just want to give folks another option that and,like I said, there's cases where funny works out great, right, butI want to give people another option to exist so that they could turn onedollar and a ten dollars without needing to get money from other people to dothat, and obviously sist. Yeah, it does. And obviously the otheroption is getting funding from your customers by...

...selling them products instead of equity exactly. You just you get cash full from your customers, or you could docrowd fundy, or there's just so many other options. But, like I'mtelling you, Sam the markets brainwashed. From people I hear it is likewe got to get fundy, we got to get fun. I'm like why? I'm like, you can't turn one dollar and a ten dollars. Howyou going to turn a million and a ten million? It's a good question. You know what I mean? Man, it's just like what now, likeit's different like now. Now, granted, there's reasons for funding.When, in my opinion, right when you start to grow and you gotyou got a good revenue and you're like, all right, we're going to pourgas on this right, there's a lot of visible UNICORNS, is whatthey call that, have gotten funding later by doing that, and that's agreat model as well. However, it's more for the early stage. Folksare like this is the only option I have, and then they convert andthey have a boss when the whole reason why they started a business was tonot have a boss, right. They wanted to be their own boss,and now they got to answer to investors and then they get fired half thetime. It's just this is mind bending to me. Yeah, I mean, I hear you. I didn't want a boss. Now I have aboss, but I I nobody should worry that. You know, the storythat you just shared is not. Is Not what's going to be happening withwith my company. Well, it too did. I mean Sam's a littledifferent because, like, you grew the RC up to a very healthy level. You know, it was sustained organic growth that you did. I'm talkinglike people early stay just throwing money out of problem and expected it to solveeverything. And so tolely different situation. Yeah, no, you're right,but to the point, you also just gotta terms or real liquidation preferences arereal, you know, and investors are that their job is to make money. So yeah, yeah, that's true. That their whole purpose is. Likehow can we protect you know, when you look at it, comparingventure capital to private equity, to any up to a loan from a bank, I mean all of the shitty stuff notwithstanding, venture capital still is themost generous for I mean to the point right. They're like people writing checksto people with no companies. So, you know, it's a pretty optimisticthing to do to her to write, you know, first time founder amillion dollar check when you know there might not even be a product in place. Yeah, Ryan, we're almost at the end of our time together.One thing I want to ask you, though. You've got this phrase thatyou know we were talking before. You have this concept of perfect customer prosperity. Tell me what you mean by that. I like that phrase. Yeah,Matt. So, what I see is a massive opportunity. Is Companyis always worried. A lot of companies are worried. I can accept speakingin generalities. You could slap me when we get off the it's okay.I mean, don't hear you're a little overla concerned, like nobody assumes thatyou're speaking for all mankind. You know, we understand. We can place youropinions and context, but I hear you. Yeah, so perfect customerprosperity amount, I mean what that's focus out of that goes deeper into whalescaling, where companies will have strategic focus on expanding their revenue. However,it goes back to the twenty rule to the point where you even have aMug it says a twenty on it.

There's not a design strategy most ofthe time to accelerate the quantity and size of the customers that produced eighty percentof the revenue. I mean, Sam, I've never seen it. It's justabsolutely crazy and I'm like like, that's how we grew the company sofast with only four sales up and we got the thirty million and annual recurringrevenue and five and a half years with people that never sold before. Andit was just because, you know, not just because there's a lot ofother reasons, but we had no marketing, we had no strrs, we hadI mean, dude, our processes were like popsicle sticks and duct tape. It was terrible. And so the big reason, though, is wekept leveling up those top five customers. So your one, we had twentyzeroa month and annual recurring revenue. Those were kind of a the area we'veplayed in. Then we bumped up to seventy five tho a month. Thenit was a hundred and fifty. Then I got the three hundred then itgot to six hundred Tho and that that's kind of what where I think everybodyfocuses on ICP, and I believe PCP as the way to go because insteadof just looking at all your prospects the same, you look at the hypervaluable ones and have your focus, in your energy, in your team,really lasers, laser scoped on those and everything that they need, and that'swhat'll create insane growth. And there's a company. If you're heard a palenteerbefore. Of course I've heard of palent here, all right. So therewhat I think? I saw the one point one billion in revenue. Yeah, there, man, and I could. I saw something that Jason Lumpkin putout on it. He did like a quick rundown on from SASTOR,who did a quick rundown on that, and one of the things that hesaid in his piece was that sixty six percent of palenteers one billion dollars inrevenue was from twenty clients and one of the clients is the government of theUnited States of America. Let that sink in like and then the other thingthat was beautiful about this, Sam is that the size that those those topcustomers were growing was that like thirty three percent per year. So their biggestcustomers. You have just kept compounding growth and sales forces doing a lot onthis. Even service now is as well, but their leveraging their biggest customers andthey're not just getting those big customers. You keep expanding those big customers yearand year out, and so that's why I think it's a beautiful strategythat you could do even when your resource constrained, as long as you justhave the focus, energy and time on it. Well, it's a powerfulinsight because you're right. Everybody so focused on new logo acquisition that sometimes youforget to tend to the people that you've already acquired, make sure that they'rehappy and see if you can expand the relationship. There's seven x cheaper,man, you know what I mean. It's seven times cheaper to get anexisting customer to spend more with you, and that's where the like the wholesecondary sales system, our secondary sales operating system I talked about, people likethis is a big mistake too, and I know you're going to you're goingto give me the old hook like they have on the stage, like theold school hook, because I'm rambling,...

...but I want to squeeze on them. On I play, I'm going to play the the music that they playat the opera. Yeah, the wrap it up box like a Dave Chappelle. So anyways, dude, like companies will have it ninety percent, ninetypercent retention rate, and these will be Fortyzero, fifty hundredzerollar deals right,and they don't freaking talk to their customers after they sell it to him.These customers say, and I'm like, do you know how many referrals youcould systemize by doing that? Like, do you know how much remedy youcan expand if you just dropped an existing process, like a second sales process, on on your existing customers? And, Oh, by the way, it'sgoing to increase satisfaction. Oh by the way, you're going to getmore ratings on g two and, Oh, by the way, you're going tocontinually expand and get product development feedback on what works and what doesn't.So I'm really passionate about as you can tell. But it's like, youknow, there's lowhanding fruit and then there's fruit on the ground, and that'swhat I consider food on the ground. I love it, but that's interesting. We got to pick up the fruit on the ground or rots. Yeah, exactly, you nailed it. There you go. All Right, Ryan. The last thing we want to do is care about some of your influences, people, books, investors, CEOS, people that you think we should knowabout, if you're tasked with the responsibility of paying it forward and lettingus know about people that had a positive impact on your life in any form, and you don't have to have met them. They could be you,could be Tom Hanks or whatever. WHO COMES TO MIND? Yeah, sothe great question, Sam. I love growth, man. It's one ofmy core human needs and I value it and once it flipped me on,it's changed my life. So I love the fact that you ask that question. So a great, great book that I read if you really want tocompletely transform your thinking, and this book has been recommended by multiple billionaires.It's only thirty six pages and it's called you squared. Have you ever heardof it or read it before? No, I haven't. Yeah, it's onlythirty six pages and a mentor of mine, a gentleman by the nameof Myering, golden, he actually sold, he had he sold three million dollarsin a sixty minute speech before. So really, really awesome and herecommended that. It's a book you read weekly, and so I've read thatBook Multiple Times. Only thirty six pages and it really gets you to stopand think. So you squared, while you or the no, yeah,while you square, great. And it's it's a really, really, reallygreat book that's Super Simple, awesome but really impactful, like you just gotto stop and let the stuff sink in, though. So that's one. Ithink it's by price Pritchett. I believe this name is, so thatthat's someone who I have a lot of respect for. And then, youknow, man like at one of my deepest, darkest points, and thisis when things were tough and different stages of my career, mentor of minewho another mentor of mine, basically said Hey, dude, you should checkout this personal development event and I'm like,...

I didn't even know what personal ailmentwas, Sam. I mean this is like six years ago. Iwas like, what the Hell's personal development? What are you talking about? Likea conference, right? And so that was Tony Robbins and I thought, think his stuff is very, very insightful for that. Yeah, andthen someone I respect when you look at from a business the founder that hasbootstrapped to heat, bootstrapt from zero to a hundred million with click funnels,and that's Russell Brunson, and he's built like a cult like following. Sojust really different people that are unique that I've gotten a lot of value fromover the years. It did seem to give first and take second, andI love that. Awesome Ryan, it's been great having you on the show. If folks want to get in touch with you, what's the best way? How can they get in touch with you? Yes, the best way, SAM is. I actually put together a special resource they could contact meon. You know, Ryan S Daey Dot I. Oh, of courseI'm active on Linkedin and and other things as well. That's my website.That's got different content. However, I got a resource that aligns well withkind of what we talked about, and basically it's the top ten questions neededto unlock any enterprize deal, and so I'll share that. It's a justa free resource. It's at www dot sm built, freedomcom, forward slashpod. It's www that sm built freedomcom, forward slash Pod, and I givethat resource to people listen to my podcast. The sales and marketing builtfreedom podcast as well, so pre resource could help you. It was takendirectly from Fortune One hundred, fortune five thousand. I'm sorry, Fortune Onehundred, fortune five hundred, exactly as on their exact criteria that they useto evaluate people when they're trying to sell them an enterprise deal. Fantastic,Ryan. Thanks so much for being on the show and we'll talk down Fridayfor Friday fundamentals. Awesome, SAM, looking forward to it. Hey everybody, it's SAM's corner. Great Conversation with Ryan. Couple things just to pointout. First of all, everybody wants to move up market but, asRyan plant it out, when you do it, the number one problem,he said, is that you're not framing the economic impact of that your solutionto your buyer aggressively enough and you're not getting them to agree to that numberand confirm it and up and down the chain, the power line and allthe people that you're talking to in the course of the sales process, hammeringand anchoring on that number. And if you don't do that, if youdon't size the problem, then your solution can be stalled, it can bechucked aside because it can't be a priority if they don't understand the economic impact. So make sure that you do that. The other thing that Ryan talked aboutis just that too many companies don't ferticalize, they spray and pray.You know, enterprise means any company over a thousand employees and boom they're offto the racist. There's there are thousands and thousands, if not hundreds ofthousands, if not millions, of companies that have more than a thousand ortenzero employees. So it's not a very useful focusing mechanism. Instead, tryto pick your segment, look at who your best customer is, and Ryansaid it's not just the company that pays...

...you the most, it's the companythat is also the most profitable, because you could have a company that paysyou the most and it's just a huge pain in the ass and you knowevery day their hammer and help desk or filling out a ticket or call insomebody and just being really, really difficult to work with. So it's notjust the company that pays you, and Monts is probably going to be thecompany that pays you the most, but also the company that is also agreat customer. And then try to mimic and replicate that and try to doit slowly. You don't have to hire fifty people and build an enterprice salesmotion and one felse, whoop. You can do it over time and gradually, still quickly, but gradually and organically, by understanding your existing customers and thenmimicking that and going forward from there. And you know, Bryan's point istry to do that. Try to fund your business through to revenue asopposed to selling equity or debt and your business, because once you do thatyou have owners and you have bosses and you need to report and that cancontort the dynamics of the business. So you know, not every company needsto raise money right away, especially at the seed stage. There are otherpaths to creating a great company. You know, my company, pavilion,we didn't raise money for five years. We finally raised around and closed itin April. We raise a twenty five million dollar around, but before thatwe'd been profitable. We had a team, thirty five people, all of itfunded from our members and our members being happy be with the experience thatwe delivered and as a consequence, that's how we funded the business. Sothere are other paths to financing Your Business and financing your growth, and Ryan'spoint is maybe consider enter price sales as one path, but you don't haveto boil the ocean. Go after in segments and sequences so that you cando it logically over time. So good conversation. If you're not a partof the sales hacker community yet, you're missing out. Any sales professional canjoin as a member to ask questions, get immediate answers and share experiences withlike minded be to be sales pros. Jump in and started discussion with morethan Seventeen Tho sales professionals at sales hackercom. Once again, thanks to our sponsors, outreach, the world's leading sales engagement platform. Had to outreach dotIOT forward slash on outreach to see how outreach does outreach. We're also sponsoredby pavilion leaders at every stage you can get started at join Pavilioncom to unlockyour professional potential. And we're sponsored by ambition. Every sales leader feels thepressure to predictably close more deals. Take control with ambition. Go to ambitioncomforwards sales hacker. There's a few other things I'm supposed to say I'm supposedto say give us five stars. I would just worry that that ship issaled. I think we're at four point five. Somebody gave US force,but you know, if you could give us a five week appreciate it.And if you want to get in touch from the of course you can emailme. Sam At joined pavilioncom. I'm happy to help you need any youneed anything, you just let me know. Otherwise I'll talk to you next time.

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