The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 6 months ago

160. Why Direct Mail Sells to a Zoom-weary Population w/ Joe Venuti



Today on the show we've got Joe Venuti, Vice President of Inside Sales for Sendoso. Joe is an incredible sales leader who is also good at building out teams in the Arizona area. Arizona is a hotbed of sales talent now, so many companies like Sendoso have opened great offices there. Joe is also very familiar with leading large organizations and talented sellers.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Lessons in leadership from life as a card shark
  2. The unexpected skill you need to develop to be a manager
  3. COVID's impact on building a long-term sales organization
  4. How to maintain a health culture in a remote environment
  5. The value of physical artifacts in a digital world
  6. Who sales development should report to

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Lessons in leadership from life as a card shark [6:49]
  2. The unexpected skill you need to develop to be a manager [8:05]
  3. COVID's impact on building a long-term sales organization [9:56]
  4. How to maintain a health culture in a remote environment [14:26]
  5. The value of physical artifacts in a digital world [16:27]
  6. Who sales development should report to [22:16]
  7. Sam’s Corner [29:33]


One two one: two: Three: Everybody's Sam Jacob's, welcome to theSales Hacker podcast today in the show we've got Joe Venuti, the vicepresident of inside sales for Sindo, so great conversation, Joe, is anincredible sales leader, also just really good, at building out teams inthe Arizona area which is sort of a hot bed of sales talent. Now that so manycompanies like candos have opened great offices there, and he also is just veryfamiliar with leading large organizations and really talentedseller. So it's a really good conversation before we get there. Wewant to think our sponsors, for is our reach. Ours has been a long time tosponsor this podcast and they just launched a new way to learn. Outreachon out reach is the first place to learn how out reach does out reach,learn how the teams followed with every lead and record time after virtualevents learn how our reruns account base plays, manages raps and so muchmore, using their very on sales engagement platform had on over tooutreach Tatao Ford, slash on Ow, reached to see what they've got goingon. Second sponsors proposed of five most businesses measure and optimizeevery part of the sales process, except the most critical one right beforeprospect, agrees to buy and hands over their money. You wouldn't sudden leadthrough your marketing sight without tracking analytics right. So are youstill in the dark about what happens in your sales process after your rops anda proposal discover propositi the proposal, software that gives youcontrol an insight into the most important stage of your sales process.The clothes and speaking of the clothes propose to five proposals close atdouble the industry, Standard rate sign up for a free trial or Bucoda proposeof fiom Ford, slash, sale, acker and now, let's US sew my interview with Joean Nudi everybody at Sam Jacobs. Welcome to theSales Hacker podcast to day on the show we've got joe an Udy Joe, is the vicepresident of inside sales at Sindo. So he was brought on to build an insidesales team in Sandoces Arizona Office and has scaled his department to sixteams and over forty people in two years, with fifteen years of sales andsales management experience. Joe Has a Deep Passion for hands on coaching tomake his team more successful and prides himself on putting the needs ofhis reps. above all else, Joe's...

...previously served in roles at leadcrunch by appointment only and Securitas security. Joe Welcome to theshow thanks so much so I'm happy to be here. We're excited to have you, so youknow we like to start with your baseball card. We said your name JoeAnuti, your titles vp of inside sales, but there might be a few folks thataren't familiar with Sindo. So so tell us in your words, what is what, asSindo do yeah so sintos is the first in leaving sending platform,we enable sales and marketing teams to leverage direct sending through everystage of their prospect and customer journey just at a high level. It helpsbreak through all of the digital noise, and you know, emails and cold calls. Itdrives really really high response rates, and great engagement reallybrings that human to human component back to selling, which I think is we'vegotten away from as a whole and then with Covin and going remote. It'sgotten even hotter, so centos really helps bridge that gap, amazing and howhow how big is Sin Doso from like a? How big is your team? How big is thecompany overall yeah, so it's been kind of a wild ride.For me, I was the first Arizona based employee that was hired back in twothousand and eighteen, so my teams grown from just me to work just undersixty people in my org now, and you know, as in total organization we'vegrown to over a couple of hundred people, so we've really really skilledquickly. In two and a half years, it's been, it's been a wild ride. It's beena lot of fun, you know creating and defining and leading a category and notstepping into a role in a well defined category with a bunch of competitorsthat we were trying to chase it. It's really been I race to lose, and I it'sbeen a blast. The competitors tend to come when you, when you demonstratethat you're doing something special, I'm sure well early on. We talked a lotabout that right, like competitors were a good thing like we needed thatvalidation, but it was important that we we built a lead, we're able to dothat. What's your background, you, I think you know I mentioned fifteenyears of sales and sales management experience, but walk us through alittle bit of the journey of how you...

...became a sales professional and how yougot into management. Yeah. I think, like everybody is not a super commonpath, but when I was in college, I was working for Securitas like part time.Uniform security like checking badgers for beer money when I was in college, really knew the game thing was evergoing to come of it. As I was exiting school, I told them. I was going to belooking for a full time. Job and I didn't know what I wanted to do, butthey offered me a supervisor for position and then after a year I becamelike a low level manager and then there was a perfect case a right time rightplace. I was working at a really really large account and none of this wassales. It was all operations like physical corporate security and mymanager was was let go pretty abruptly and I stepped into that job on anentering basis and I ended up holding on to it for the next eight or nineyears so yeah it was, it was a wild ride. I was like twenty four twentyfive and I had a team of like sixty. I was in a way over my head, but it was agreat learning experience. It taught me how to be a leader and I definitelymade a lot of mistakes. I was fortunate to have a great mentor at that company.That really taught me how business worked. Eventually, there was a prettybig lay off that I was part of, and I really didn't know what to do like justage and experience wise. I was not qualified for vice president roles thatI wanted, and a lot of the roles that I was qualified for were a significantpaycut. So I did the only logical thing there was to do. I went and playedpoker professionally for two years. My parents love that idea, but it wasfun, got to travel, get to play cards and then, when all of the online website got shutdown, I figured it was time to get a real job again, and that was when Iwent in to buy a pointment only. I started there as a sales wrap. I didpretty well for about a year and then they were looking for another salesmanager and I said, listen like everything on this job wreck. I haveonly all of my leadership experiences, not in sales. I interview got the jobmanaged the team. This was all in Massachusetts, moved down to thesouthern part of mass, to open an office in Norwood for them scaled tothat from zero to twenty eight and...

...about a year, and then I came out toArizona to work in the Maser Office for by appoint my only that was a largeofficers, four or five sales teams and about ninety raps, and then Ieventually took a roll with lead crunch and then Chris, I C at Indos reachedout one day on linked in, and it was just going to be a conversation aboutsales and sales, talent and seals leadership in Arizona and that highlevel just conversation turned into me. Basically saying: WHERE DO I sign? Iwas just so bought into the vision and as he was explaining what Sindes is orwhat his vision of Sandesa was. I just kept thinking like man. I wish I hadthat like wow. That makes total sense, so I got really really excited aboutthe opportunity and a couple of weeks later I joined in the rest of hishistory. I love it well what a great story! Well, let's lot, I have a fewquestions: first, professional poker player. How did tell me about how thathow that came about and what I'm sure you take a ton of lessons from cardplaying and bring them into leadership or not? But what have you learned frombeing a professional card player that you bring into the Business World Yeah?I think the ability to read people- I think, that's a big one. I think that's something to translates twelveright, understanding, kind of what levers to pull and push when you'rehaving conversations, especially when you know a rapper or college bit behaving an emotional reaction to something going on. I think that theability to kind of be patient and process things quickly and in kind ofPicot based on their needs is important. You know I mean I just think like.Overall, it's taught me to be more patient right. I mean in poke yourfolding eighty, ninety percent of the hands that you dealt and in sales and in any business here atleast, I always want to move a million miles an hour, but it's taught me tokind of wait and pick and choose my spots. You know and try to understandthe big picture, rights and kind of pick it. Thus your battles just like ina Fokera, even kind of pick and choose what pots you get involved in and whatthe you know. What's the maximum value...

...of each on each trip you put in themiddle so to speak. That's a great point, there's a lot of folks thatlisten! That are, you know, they're all everybody has some idea, perhaps aboutwhat it might like to move from being an individual contributor to being amanager, and you know in the bio we talked about how you know you put your reps needs. Aboveall else, what are some of the things that have helped? You become a greatmanager and leader of inside teams and what's the both the biggest unexpectedskill that you needed to develop when you're moving from being an individualcontributor to a manager yeah, so I mean, I think, the biggest skill likeinitially to develop, and it's not really anything that you can preparefor, especially if you're being promoted at your current company, and Iexperience this back at by appointment, only was going from being peer to bosspretty much overnight. That's a really really tough transition, especially youknow when you're working in startups, where you've got you know a prettyrelaxed culture, a lot of cases there's you know happy hours and you know, rapsare pretty much were pretty tight knit and now all of a sudden you're going tobe the person to kind of temper some of those some of those events or you know, getpeople back and focused and they minimize the distractions. When youknow three weeks ago, you might have been the biggest distraction on thefloor so like I think that that's probably the biggest thing to to tacklelike day one right and then obviously your your job changes. It's justmanaging different expectations. You know it's a very different world,worrying about five or ten or twenty or sixty different people versus just whatcan I do to hit my number so yeah? It's the ability to wear a lot of differenthats, some days, you're going to be the boss and really push hard and some daysyou've got to understand that people are stressed and take on more of afriend, and sometimes you got to be inventor, and sometimes it feels likeyou have to be a therapist so like really getting good an understandinglike what each individual responds best to and also at each individualsituation calls for absolutely. I guess one of the questions I have it and I doof course want to talkk about Sindo so...

...because I'm sure so much has probablybeen a some ways: a positive impact for the business over the course of Ovid.But what's your point of view, you know you were hired two years ago to buildout what I would imagine to be. You know it's you mentioned that you've gotfifty people reporting to you, so you've got the requirements to build alarge inside sales organization inside sales typically means everybody sittingnext to each other in one office, how has being remote impacted the team andhas it changed your point of view on whether you need a sales office inorder to drive great outcomes, or are you just as firm that you know remoteis not the same thing we need people to be in the office, sit next to eachother. That's how we get the energy. What's your point of view on the longterm impact of Ovid on building out an inside sales organization yeah I mean,I think, I'm on both sides of that spectrum, and I think, if you would askme eighteen months ago, can you take it inside sales, team or sales developmentteam and make them fully remote and be as successful as you can be in theoffice with no hesitation I would have enphadde you absolutely not can't bedone. You need the energy you need to comraderie. However, when your hand isforced, it's amazing what you can accomplish. After being, you know homenow for thirteen months, I think that there is a need to go back to theoffice in some ways, but I think the days of like Monday to Friday, Ninetyfive are gone. I think that you know you're looking at hybrid models to dothe other thing that coved is impacted and really changed. As you know, myhiring strategies. For starters, you know we need a little bit of differentcandidate profile, because training and on boarding is hotter, but also itopened up a really really large talent pool right. We were hiring exclusivelyin SCOTTA because everybody was in office. Know I've now been able toexpand that search across the country and brought in some really amazingtalent, and, quite frankly, if we were only in office and not looking remotelike you, never would have interviewed. So I think this kind of two sides ofthe coin, but I also think that long term the office is a good thing,especially for newer reps, for on boarding for ramping things like that.I think it's really really important. I...

...think, as people get tenured and alittle more comfortable and you know kind of have a repeatable process down,it's probably not as necessary. So yeah I mean in a perfect world, I've got atotal of you know, six teams that I'm ultimate response as far as he'sdifferent managers and in directors over them. I would like to see like oneday where my whole apartment goes to the office and then like one day a week,each individual team will have their day, and so it means two days in threedays out for every employee. That's just my personal opinion. I know thatevery company's going to handle it differently- and you know it'ssomething- that's obviously a topic of conversation now with our executiveteam and will arrive at the best decision for the organization, but yeahmy views. Audie definitely changed. Do you feel mentioned that you started hiring allover the country where you strategic about, like okay, I'm an hired from allover the country, but only in these three spots, because one of the thingsthat I've seen happen is once you start really spreading out the geography ofyour hiring. Now you've got you know twenty people all in different citiesand when you do, if you do want to do that, that hybrid rotational modelbecomes basically asking people to either move or not be part of. You knowthe new rotational model that you're building yeah. So I don't know that Iintentionally hired in like just a few different locations, but it kind ofturned out that I've got some folks in like the Boston of her New Hampshirearea, some folks that are in like the Austin area and then some folks thatare in, like California, you know both northern and southern. So it kind ofworked out the majority of them kind of landed near each other. But when wemade the decision to bring in remote people, we had no real line of site togoing back. We really weren't sure if for when- and you know honestly we'restill not a hundred percent sure when we go back or what it looks like whenwe do, but those people that we hired out of state. The expectation is thatyou know they can remain remote. We hired them about. We understood thatthere could be an impact when the rest of the company returns, but for theright talent. I think it's a reasonable...

...accommodation for us to make a lot ofthese people are really really performing well and have become leaderson the team. So you know, I certainly don't want to risk losing them or forcethem. You know to pack up and move across the country when they're doingjust fine doing what they're doing it's an extra step for me for leadership tomake sure that we keep the culture intact to keep them involved when mostof the teams in the office and now you've got this subset of a few. Thataren't, but it's nothing that we can't manage there. What are the things thatyou do to maintain and build a great culture and how have you, I'm sure, you've adapted certaintactics or strategies over the last thirteen months? What have you done tomaintain culture while you're in a completely remote world yeah? So it'sfunny just as a leader when I, when I came into Sindo, so even in myinterview process, like I talked a lot about, we were building this from theground up. Culture is my non negotiable. It's my number one thing that I'mlooking for these interviews. I let a lot of really really good sales talent,walk out of interviews, withoutoffers because quite frank, they would havebeen a nightmare on the sales for, and I just don't need the headache, it'smuch easier when you have a cohesive unit and everybody's kind of pulling inthe same direction. Little did. I know that when Ovid hit the fact that we hadstructured the team so much around our culture would be the greatest asset tome. I hear tiring classes to this day. We had a group just start last week.Every one of them tells me is. They cannot believe how willing every singleperson on the team is to help they feel as though they can slack or callanybody, and they will stop what they're doing and it help out a newhier. So that is how we've kind of survived the on boarding process inthis remote world, because it's a lot of the managers right managers have bigteams and big numbers, and now you've got a cohorn o five new hires, themanagers they run out of bed with so being able to leverage those those moresenior and more tened, reps and they're all happy to do. It is one of like thegreatest testaments for me that, like I did a pretty good job of culture. Youknow the team gets along well, the biggest complaint I hear about workfrom home. Is I miss my friends? You...

...know I always kind of make the jokethat sometimes I did too good of a job of culture, because there was a lot ofthe was Monday or Tuesday night were a few people work for a happy hour, andthen I can see you turn into a late night come Tuesday morning, but I guessI would rather, that than have the kind of environment with people a shock ateach other's leaves and no one's talking and if somebody's foundsomething that works. They're not sharing an it's, a very inclusive andsharing culture, and it's also one of things I'm most proud about that I'veaccomplished it and do so. That's fantastic! What about the business ofSindo? So I'm sure I mean I think we would all assume but would love to hearsome data and some perspective on how has the business of sending peoplethings in the mail exploded stayed the same over the course of thirteen monthsof people being you know at home, trapped in their homes. I would imaginethat, because of that fact, the idea of sending people physical artifacts ismore popular than ever, just as a way of breaking through the noise and kindof reaching some kind of human engagement when you're not allowed toyou know, have a drink with somebody or meet them in personal yeah, I mean onehundred percent. I think I'll, never forget the day that we got sent homeright. Basically, I got a call and it was hey.You know afternoon at noon, we're going to pretty much clear out the offices-and I remember walking out thinking all right, we'll be back in like two orthree weeks. This isn't a huge thing and obviously I was wrong, but Iremember in the coming two or three days there were several meetings withyou know our sales and marketing executive team, where we basically hadto redefine our entire go to market motion right. The world had changedinstantly and we made a very, very conscious decision that we needed tochange, but we couldn't stop. So we were able to continue to produce wereable to continue to be productive. We were able, in the end, the SR to tostill drive pipe line, and you know that project is something that wouldtypically take months to pin it and we pivoted in like three weeks so that waskind of the big initial shift from there as people settled into beingremote and all of the events went away.

Yeah sending became like really theironly option, so we had a nice trajectory going and then I think therewas like that moment of panic like what's the world going to do you know,March of last year and then by like mid April or May people were kind of settling in andthey needed to get back to their sales and marketing campaigns and SI Dosa. was there so yeah? I mean weevolved a lot as a company. We did some things to accelerate certain featureson our road map. Things like address conformation that we really push thatto the forefront because we knew that was going to be more pivotal. Now Right.He can't just send something to your office. I need a way to get somethingto your home, so you know it as an organization. I've never seen a companyshift as fast as we were able to, and it set us up to be really reallysuccessful in a really really difficult time. That's awesome and and how ofwhat shifts have you seen from buyers you know and from people and frommarketers that are employing direct sending? Obviously, I must you musthave seen an explosion, but tell us about like some of the trends thatyou've seen yeah it's funny. We actually just released a state ofsending report that talks a lot about this. You know I think that emailsright so so cold emails increased by like sixty two percent virtual events,disappeared. Cold calls increased by twenty eight percent, so, like all ofthat, just became overwhelming right. It factors into this digital fatigueand that becomes a huge barrier in either customer engagement of prospect,engagement, Sandolo kind of gives people away to really sell to the humanright. I mean ninety one percent of the people that responded to our surveysaid that a human connection is more important now than than it was like.That's what Sandoe does it makes selling human again if a sales raptakes the time to do a little bit of research find out when you went toschool, what your favorite sports team is and then delivers some reallythoughtful, personalized messaging, along with whether it's a Mug or a hato some sort of like a catchy pun,...

...that's going to catch! Your attentionover another one of those six hundred automated emails that hit your in boxtoday and that's that that's really how we've built this thing up. What do yousee do you see is sending the new. Is You know, I'm sure, I'm you work forSyndon, I'm sure I can predict your answer, but confirming it is it here to stay you know do do youthink that, even when we were turn to the office and sort of there's a littlebit more in person and human connection, or do you feel like this is establisheditself is just a really meaningful way, because it's really funny, you know, Imean people used to send it wasn't things as much as it was likepost cards and direct mail, and if you check your mailbox, you still get, youknow dozens and dozens of real estate stuff, but and then it was out of favorfor a while and now sending is back. Do you feel like it's here to stay? Do youfeel like it's? You know a trend. What's your perspective on kind of likethe medium and long term, future for getting stuff in the mail fromcompanies that are trying to sell you stuff yeah, I one hundred percent. Theyit's here to stay, and I don't think it's just because I work for Sindo so,but that's that probably makes me a little bit bias. As you pointed outanother one of you know, the stots from the state of sending is Dureta expected to be. The number isthe number one tactic that sales in macati leaders a plan into us in twothousand and twenty one. Now I know the port of that might be from Covin, butthere's a lot of other avenues is a lot of other taxes that lot another a lotof other tools and the spend that we're seeing in this space, I think,amplified quickly because of of Covin in the work from home environment, butit was already climbing before so. I think, as we return, this is going tobe part of companies just built in ATM outbound sales, marketing and CSmotions, and it's not something. That's going to go away because, at the end ofthe day, you can't argue when you have a sixty or seventy percent responserate, then find me an email, kate into sequence. It's going to do that for you,it's not, but if you have well thought out abmarsch play where you'releveraging sending in the right places... the right prospects and you're Ganeia seventy percent response rate and that's turning into meaningfulconversations which turned into pipe line and revenue. You can't afford tocut that out because the people that are using an e Goin to run pasturesyeah. I think that you're dead, on your dead on and andand make a great point. I want to shift perspectives a little bit or topicsbecause you are such a great leader of development sales development- and youknow, there's this constant debate about who sales development shouldreport to. Is it marketing or is it sales? And I have my own perspective onit, but I'm always curious to hear a different people's perspective. Whatare your thoughts on? You know the STR team, the BR team, who should theyreport to marketing to make sure they got tight, messaging or sales becausethat's the future of their careers. What are your thoughts? One of my favorite topics I per, and Idon't know that this is the most popular opinion, but I personallybelieve that sales development is moving in a direction of becoming itsown pillar. It's not sales, IT'S NOT MARKETING! It's the bridge between thetwo, an a lot of ways. So I really think that if you look at how salesteams and sales development teams who evolved over the last two or three orfour or five years, sales development has really become its own function, and-and that's why you have this debate because they don't fit perfectly intosales, they don't fit perfectly into marketing. They do a different jobthey're that piece in between the two. So I do think like, as companiescontinue to scale- and you know, people really start to hammer down abprocesses and things get more personalized and it's this human tohuman selling idea that I really think is going to be the wave that we'removing into. I think that that means like sales development, becomes alittle more of a specialized skill. Now I understand a lot of people come intosales development and they want to move into. You know a count executive rolesand I think, like that's, still a perfectly fine career path, but I thinkthat a couple of years ago the...

...assumption was, you could take anysales leader and they could run a ses development team, but you could notnecessarily take a sill development manager and put them in charge of fullpsycho raps with no experience- and that's probably still true, but I don't know that you can take any fullcycle sales leader who has never been an SD or really like, run in str motionand expect them to be to seamlessly step in and run that team at the levelat that, like these world class organizations run, so I think we wereseeing that shift. I really think that you know the proper place is kind of apillar on the go to market team. That sits. You know between marketing and sales. I thinkyou're making some great points, and I think I think that's good, because theproblem a lot of the times and exactly to your point about like any any fullcycle sales leader can run an STR team is that you've got people that becomeamazing as tours and the natural place for them might be because they mightalso be great. Teachers is to become str managers, but then they worry thatthe SR manager position is kind of a dead end that it doesn't really goanywhere. You still need full cycle experience to be the VP of sales and,if you're a nest, our manager, you might get stock managing str, but notbe able to progress up to a VP title, and so the idea that becoming great agreat sales development leader can become its own path. To you know thesea suite and a path to a cro is probably a really good thing forpeople's careers. I think yeah, absolutely I mean two years ago. Ithink you would have been hard pressed to find a VP of sales development or some onethat that had my title in my exact responsibility and you're, seeing moreand more and more VP level titles. So I think it's only a man of time of whatis a sea level title. It's just a natural progression. The job is gettingmore technical. The job is moving. You know in some ways, further away fromclosing, but also further away from... Brandon Buzz and like MLdevelopment right, it's really becoming its own pillar, and I think that it'sonly a matter of time before a lot of companies start to break it off makes alot of sense, Joe we're almost at the end of our time together, and this isthe part where we like to figure out your influences. If we one day want tobecome Joe Anuti and become a professional, professional poker playerat some point, what do we need to do? Who are the people that have influencedyou? If you think about like great books, you've read or great mentorspeople that you think we should know about what comes to mind, so I have been lucky that I have had alot of really great managers that people thatmanage me directly throughout my career and then have turned into mentors. Youknow- and I touched that at the very beginning, when I was talking about ortime it secure it. As you know, my first real boss was also you know, amentor someone. I can still consider a close friend, his name Shara Doire. AsI look across like the sales world, I've been very lucky to be able to workand communicate with people like like Mike Robas and Mandy Co, who aredownfield. You know I been Fortuna to have a couple of meetings andconversations with them and just being able to like pick their brain and andget validation from them right. I mean sometimes I'm thinking of something andfeels a little bit. You know off the wall and all of a sudden they like. Nothat's a great idea like we actually did it like that. You know in thisscenario like to have that level of validation, as always been a huge forme. Another person that, like I really respect and and work with a lot, isLauren Bailey she's, the founder of a factory in the Girls Club. I becomepretty involved with Girls Club as a mentor lar, and I become really reallygood friends. I think that she's an amazing person. She is amazing, energy,a yeah yeah, Laurens Laurens one of my favorites and for people I don't knowwell personally, but really seem to get a lot out of like, but I see them on apodcast or just like linked in content. Scot Leaf always comes to bind Rad. Ithink that everyone knows Scott he's an amazing thought leader, but whenever Iget a chance to listen to him or take a second and read something these put out,but always seems to be a ton of value...

...there awesome, I think you mentioned, Ithink you mentioned books. My favorite book by far is extreme ownership. Ithink that it's nice because it moves away from like the got every other sales book, but I thinkthat it really talks a lot about how to own your business and own the thingsyou're responsible for and really be a good solid leader, so yeah extremeownerships, like the default book that I go to to what somebody ask for a goodbook recommendation. You follow Jacko on twitter. I do I do. He actually hasa podcast that I've been listening to. I get to the game late, so I'm likeeight hundred episodes behind or something but I'll get through them, yeah's an intense guy. It's a GreatBook Joe If folks are listening and they want to get in touch. What's thebest way to get in touch Linin's, probably the best just Jovanny, a prety,responsive self feel free to send me a connection or send me a note. I am I'mpretty responsive awesome, Joe thanks. So much for being on the show. Sorryfor the background, noise, I'm in the middle of New York City, you've gotbirds chirping in your background, but I'm drilling and Syren so yeah. It actually it's really nice inArizona, so I got the win three weeks away from from living in anoven, so I'm trying to think advantage yeah exactly. I live next to a hospital.So that's great, but we'll talk to you on Friday. For for Friday fundamentals, awesome sounds good, saying thanks somuch for having me thanks for being here, everybody Sam's corner really enjoyedthat conversation with Joe, an Udy, great great person, great sales leader,and it's really cool to see the rise of this function, that he's in s that he'sresponsible for not just insight sales but sales development and reallyelevating the Wale of demand generation within organizations which I think isgoing to be really exciting and interesting. So I love the conversationthanks for listening and I think it's also just fascinating everything. Thatsbeen happening with direct mail right...

...with everything. That's been going on, we'reall living at home. How do you? How do you stand out when everybody's on zoomsall day and one of the ways that you do, that is through tactile, engagementwith physical artifacts? And that's that's what Sindo so does it's? It's apowerful new category and it's great because you know we used to think ofdirect male is, like you know, mailers from real estate agents that stuff upyour mail box and for my mailbox that still is the majority of the math Ireceive. But SANNOS can really change the game because all of a sudden nowyou're receiving actual physical goods, we use him a revenue, collective andevery new member that signs up for an annual plan. That's an executive gets awater bottle, gets a book by Latin con at the Chief Marketing Officer. SixCents Gets a handwritten note for me all within a custom design box. All ofthat comes from candos, so it's really cool Jo, was a great guy and they alsoare doing great things with the Phoenix area just building up that thatecosystem- which I think is so important so and I think his thoughtson sort of the evolution of sales development- are also reallyinteresting. So I love the conversation want to think. Our sponsors, of course,out reaches the first monster, the number one sales engagement platform.Of course, if you want to see how our out recuse outreach to drive successfor out reach, I don't know her to outreach odile Ford, slash on outrageto see what they've got going on. Of course, we want to think propose if Ipropos ified proposals close at double industry, Standard Right, sign up for afree trial or Bukaa at proposion forth sales hacker, if you're, not a part ofthe sales hacker community, yet you're missing out any sales professional canjoin as a member to ask questions, get immediate answers and share experiences.This, like minded, be to be sales professionals, thanks for listening,hope you can subscribe, but also give us five star review. If you would nothree star reviews if he hated the podcast today and just really can'twait to turn this off, then you know keep it to yourself, but if you lovedit give us a five star review. If you want to get in touch men, you canlinkin com for last. The word in for to last Sam F Jacobs. You can email mesane, Roan, collective com, otherwise I'll talk to you next time.

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