The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 8 months ago

160. Why Direct Mail Sells to a Zoom-weary Population w/ Joe Venuti

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Overview:

Today on the show we've got Joe Venuti, Vice President of Inside Sales for Sendoso. Joe is an incredible sales leader who is also good at building out teams in the Arizona area. Arizona is a hotbed of sales talent now, so many companies like Sendoso have opened great offices there. Joe is also very familiar with leading large organizations and talented sellers.

What You’ll Learn

  1. Lessons in leadership from life as a card shark
  2. The unexpected skill you need to develop to be a manager
  3. COVID's impact on building a long-term sales organization
  4. How to maintain a health culture in a remote environment
  5. The value of physical artifacts in a digital world
  6. Who sales development should report to

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. Lessons in leadership from life as a card shark [6:49]
  2. The unexpected skill you need to develop to be a manager [8:05]
  3. COVID's impact on building a long-term sales organization [9:56]
  4. How to maintain a health culture in a remote environment [14:26]
  5. The value of physical artifacts in a digital world [16:27]
  6. Who sales development should report to [22:16]
  7. Sam’s Corner [29:33]


 

One, two, one, three, hey, everybody's Sam Jacob. Welcome to the salesacker podcast. Today inthe show we've got Joe Venuty, the vice president of inside sales for Sendo. So great conversation. Joe Is an incredible sales leader, also just reallygood at building out teams in the Arizona area, which is sort of ahotbed of sales talent now that so many companies like sendos so have opened greatoffices there. And he also is just very familiar with leading our organizations andreally talented seller. So it's really good conversation. Before we get there,we want to thank our sponsors versus outreach. Outreach has been a long time sponsorthis podcast and they just launched a new way to learn outreach. Outoutreaches the first place to learn how we outreach does outreach? Learn how theteams followed with every leading record time after virtual events. Learn how outreach runsaccount based plays, manages reps and so much more. Using their very ownsales engagement platform. Head on over to outreach io forward slash on outreach tosee what they've got going on. A second sponsors propos of FY most businessis measure and optimize every part of the sales process except the most critical one, right before prospect agrees to buy and hands over their money. You wouldn'tsend leads through your marketing site without tracking analytics, right. So why areyou still in the dark about what happens in your sales process after your repsand a proposal? Discover propos of by the proposal software that gives you controland insight into the most important stage of your sales process, the clothes.And speaking of the clothes, propose of five proposals close at double the industrystandard rates. Sign up for a free trial or book a demo. Ipropose to FYCOM forward. Slash salesacker. And now let's listen to my interviewwith Joe An nuty. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to thesales hacker podcast. Today on the show we've got joe an nuty.Joe Is the vice president of inside sales at Sendoso. He was brought onto build an inside sales team and Sendosa's Arizona Office and a scaled this departmentof six teams and over forty people in two years. With fifteen years ofsales and sales management experience, Joe has a Deep Passion for hands on coachingto make his team more successful and prides himself and putting the needs of hisreps above all else. Joe's previously served...

...in roles at lead crunch, byappointment only, and secure tosk security. Joe, welcome to the show.Thanks so much. Say I'm happy to be here. We're excited to haveyou. So you know, we like to start with your baseball card.We said your name, Jove Anuti. Your titles VP of inside sales.But there might be a few folks that that aren't familiar with Sendoso. Sotell us in your words. What is what a Sendoso do? Yeah,so Sindoso is the first and leading sending platform. We enable sales and marketingteams to leverage direct sending through every stage of their prospect and customer journey,just at a high level. It helps breakthrough all the digital noise and emailsand cold calls. It drives really, really high response rates and great engagementand really brings that human to human component back to selling, which I thinkis we've gotten away from as a whole. And then with covid and going remote, it's gotten even hotder. So send also really helped bridge that gap. Amazing. And how how? How big is Sindo? So from likea how big is your team, how big is the company overall? Yeah, so it's been kind of a wild ride. For me. I wasthe first Arizona based employee that was hired back in two thousand and eighteen.So my team's grown from just me to we're just under sixty people in myorg now. And you know, as in total organization, we've grown toover a couple hundred people. So we've really really scaled quickly in two anda half years. It's been a it's been a wild ride's been a lotof fun, you know, creating and defining and leading a category and notstepping into a role in a well defined category with a bunch of competitors thatwe were trying to chase it. It's really been our race to lose it. It's been a blast. The competitors tend to come when you when youdemonstrate that you're doing something special. I'm sure early on we talked a lotabout that. Right, like competitors were a good thing, like we neededthat validation. But it was important that we that we built a lead threeable to do that. What's your background? Yeah, I think you know.I mentioned fifteen years of sales and sales management experience, but walk usthrough a little bit of the journey of...

...how you became a sales professional andhow you got into management. Yeah, I think, like everybody, it'snot a super common path. But when I was in college I was workingfor secure Tosk, like parttime uniform security, like checking badgers for beer money.When I was in college, really did the game thing was ever goingto come of it. As I was exiting school, I told them thatI was going to be looking for a full time job and I didn't knowwhat I wanted to do, but they offered me a supervisor for position andthen after a year I became like a low level manager. And then therewas a perfect case of right time, right place. I was working ata really, really large account and none of this was sales. It wasall operations, like physical corporate security, and my manager was was let gopretty abruptly and I stepped into that job on an interim basis and ended upholding on to it for the next eight or nine years. So yeah,it was it was a wild ride. I was like two Thousan four hundredand twenty five and I had a team of like sixty. I was inway over my head, but it was a great learning experience. It taughtme how to be a leader and I definitely made a lot of mistakes.I was fortuned to have a great mentor at that company that really taught mehow business worked. Eventually there was a pretty big layoff that I was partof and I really didn't know what to do. Like just age and experiencewise, I was not qualified for vice president roles that I wanted and alot of the roles that I was qualified for we're significant pay cut. SoI did the only logical thing there was to do. I went and playedpoker professionally for two years. So my parents loved that idea, but itwas fun. You got to travel, get to play cards, and thenwhen all of the online websites got shut down, I figured it was timeto get a real job again, and that was when I went into buyappointment only. I started there as a sales rep and I did pretty wellfor about a year and then they were looking for another sales manager and Isaid listen, like everything on this job wreck, I have only all ofmy leadership experience is not sales. I interview got the job manage the team. This was all in Massachusetts. Moved down to the southern part of massto open it office in Norwood for them.

Scaled that from zero to twenty eightand about a year and then I came out to Arizona to work inthe Maser Office for by a point. I only that was a large office. There was four or five sales teams in about ninety reps, and thenI eventually took a role with lead crunch and then Chris, our CEO atSindosa, reached out one day on Linkedin and it was just going to bea conversation about sales and sales talent and sales leadership in Arizona and that highlevel just conversation turned into me basically saying where do I sign? I wasjust so bought into the vision and as he was explaining what Sindosa is orwhat his vision of Sindosa was, I just kept thinking of Man, Iwish I had that, like wow, that makes total sense. So Igot really, really excited about the opportunity and a couple of weeks later Ijoined and the rest of history. I love it. Well, what agreat story. Well, let's love. I have a few questions. First, professional poker player. How did tell me about how that, how thatcame about and what I'm sure you take a ton of lessons from card playingand bring them into leadership or not, but what have you learned from beinga professional card player that you bring into the business world? Yeah, Ithink the ability to read people. I think that's a big one. Ithink that's something that translates well right, understanding kind of what lovers to pulland push when you're having conversations, especially when you or wrapper or colleague bybe have very good emotional reaction to something going on. I think that theability to kind of be patient and process things quickly and in kind of pivotbased on their needs is important, you know, and I mean I justthink like overall, it's taught me to be more patient, right. Imean in poker you're folding eighty ninety percent of the hands that you dealt andin sales and in any business you're at least I always want to move amillion miles an hour, but it's taught me to kind of wait and pickand choose my spots, you know, and try to understand the big picturerights trying to pick a choose your battles. Just like at a poker tail youwould kind of pick and choose what pots you get involved in and whatthe you know, what's the maximum value...

...of each of each chip you putin the middle, so to speak? That's a great point. There's alot of folks that listen that are, you know, they're all everybody hassome idea, perhaps about what it might like to move from being an individualcontributor to being a manager. And you know, in the Baio we talkedabout how, you know, you put your reps needs above all else.What are some of the things that have helped you become a great manager andleader of inside teams and what's the most, the biggest unexpected skill that you neededto develop when you're moving from being an individual contributor to a manager?Yeah, so, I mean, I think the biggest skill like initially todevelop and it's not really anything that you can prepare for, especially if you'rebeing promoted at your current company, and I experienced this back and by appointmentonly, was going from being peer to boss pretty much overnight. That's areally really tough transition, especially, you know, when you're working in startupswhere you've got your pretty relaxed culture. In a lot of cases there's,you know, happy hours and you know reps are pretty much pretty tight knitand now all of a sudden you're going to be the person to kind oftemper some of those some of those events or, you know, get peopleback and focused and they minimize the distractions, when you know three weeks ago youmight have been the biggest distraction of the floor. So I think thatthat's probably the biggest thing to tackle, like day one right and then obviouslyyour your job changes. It's just managing different expectations. You know, it'sa very different world worrying about five or ten or twenty or sixty different peopleversus just what can I do to hit my number? So yeah, it'sthe ability to wear a lot of different hats or some days you're going tobe the boss and really push hard and some days you've got to understand thepeople as stressed and take on more of a friend and sometimes you got tobe a mentor and sometimes the fields of you have to be a therapist.So really getting good at understandingly what each individual responds best to and also whateach individual situation calls for. Absolutely, I guess one of the questions Ihave, and and I do of course, want to talk about Sandoza, becauseI'm sure so much has probably been...

...a some ways a positive impact forthe business over the course of covid. But what's your point of view?You know, you were hired two years ago to build out what I wouldimagine to be, you know, it's you mentioned that you've got fifty peoplereporting to you, so you've got the requirements to build a large inside salesorganization. Inside sales typically means everybody sitting next to each other in one office. How has being remote impacted the team and has it changed your point ofview on whether you need a sales office in order to drive great outcomes?Or are you just as firm that? You know, remote is not thesame thing. We need people to be in the office sit next to eachother. That's how we get the energy. What's your point of view on thelong term impact of covid on building out and inside sales organization? Yeah, I mean, I think I'm on both sides of that spectrum right.I think if you would ask me eighteen months ago, can you take itinside sales team or sales development team and make them fully remote and be assuccessful as you can't be in the office with no hesitation? I would haveemphatically told you absolutely not. Can't be done. You need the energy,you need the camaraderie. However, when your hand is forced, it's amazingwhat you can accomplish after being, you know, home now for thirteen months. I think that there is a need to go back to the office insome ways, but I think the days of like Monday to Friday, ninehundred twenty five are gone. I think that, you know, you're lookingat hybrid models to do. The other thing that covid is impacted and reallychanged is your my hiring strategies for starters. You know, we need a littlebit different kid in a profile because training it on boarding is harder.But also it opened up a really, really large talent pool. Right wewere hiring exclusively in SCOTTS deal to everybody was in office. No, I'venow been able to expand that search across the count tree and brought in somereally amazing talent and, quite frankly, if we were only in office andnot looking remotely never would have interviewed. So I think this kind of twosides of the coin. But I also think that long term the office isa good thing, especially for newer reps, for on boarding, for ramping,things like that. I think it's...

...really, really important. I thinkas people get tenured in a little more comfortable and you know, kind ofhave a repeatable process down, it's probably not as necessary. So yeah,I mean in a perfect world I've got a total of, you know,six teams that I'm ultimately responsible far these different managers and directors over them.I would like to see like one day where my whole department goes to theoffice and then like one day a week each individual team will have their dayand so means two days in, three days out for every employee. That'sjust my personal opinion. I know that every company's going to handle it differentlyand you know, it's something that's obviously a topic of conversation now with ourexecutive team and will arrive at the best decision for the organization. But yeah, my views on it have definitely changed. Do you feel? You mentioned thatyou started hiring all over the country, where you strategic about like, okay, I'm and hire from all over the country, but only in thesethree spots, because one of the things that I've seen happen is once youstart really spreading out the geography of your hiring now you've got, you know, twenty people all in different cities, and when you do if you dowant to do that, that hybrid rotational model becomes basically asking people to eithermove or not be part of, you know, the new rotational model thatyou're building. Yeah, so I don't know that I intentionally hired in likejust a few different locations, but it kind of turned out that I've gotsome folks in like the Boston Southern New Hampshire area, some folks that arein like the Austin area and then some folks that are in like California,you know, both northern and southern. So it kind of worked out thatthe majority of them kind of landed near each other. But when we madethe decision to bring in remote people, we had no real line of sightto going back. We really weren't sure if or when and you know,honestly, we're still not a hundred percent sure when we go back or whatit looks like when we do. But those people that we hired out ofstate, the expectation is that, you know, they can remain remote.We hired them remote we understood that they could be an impact when the restof the company returns. But for the right talent, I think it's areasonable accommodation for us to make. A...

...lot of these people are really reallyperforming well and it become leaders on the team. So, you know,I certainly don't want to risk losing them or force them, you know,to pack up and move across the country when they're doing just fine doing whatthey're doing. It's an extra step for me and for leadership to make surethat we keep the culture intact, to keep them involved when most of theteams in the office and now you've got this subset of a few that aren't. But it's nothing that we can't manage their what are the things that youdo to maintain and build a great culture and how have you I'm sure you'veadapted certain tactics or strategies over the last thirteen months. What have you doneto maintain culture while you're in a completely remote world? Yeah, so it'sfunny just as a leader and when I when I came into Sendo. Soeven in my interview process, like I talked a lot about we're we're buildingthis from the ground up. Culture is my nonnegotiableets, my number one thingthat I'm looking for these interviews. I let a lot of really, reallygood sales talent walk out of interviews without offers because, quite frank, theywould have been a nightmare on the sales floor and I just don't need theheadache. It's much easier when you have a cohesive unit and everybody's kind ofpulling in the same direction. Little that I know that when covid hit,the fact that we had structured the team so much around our culture would bethe greatest asset to me. I hear to hiring classes to this day.We had a group to start last week and every one of them tells meis they cannot believe how willing every single person on the team is to help. They feel as though they can slack or call anybody and they will stopwhat they're doing and it help out a new hire. So that is howwe've kind of survived the onboarding process in this remote world, because it's alot on the manager right. Managers have big teams and big numbers and nowyou've got a cohort of five new hires. The managers, you know, theyrun out of band with so being able to leverage those those more seniorand more ten year reps, and they're all happy to do it, isone of like the greatest testaments for me that, like I did a prettygood job of culture. You know, the team gets along well. Thebiggest complaint I hear about work from home...

...as I miss my friends. Youknow, I always kind of make the joke that sometimes I did two goodof a job of culture, because there was a lot of those. WasMonday or Tuesday nights where a few people go for happy hour and then Icould see attorney to a late night come Tuesday morning. But I guess Iwould rather that than have the kind of environment where people are shark at eachother's leads and no one's talking and if somebody's found something that works, therenot sharing it. It's a very inclusive and sharing culture and it's also oneof things I'm most proud about that I've accomplished it. Some DOSA. That'sfantastic. What about the business of send us? I'm sure. I meanI think we would all assume, but would love to hear some data andsome perspective on how has the business of sending people things in the mail explodedstayed the same over the course of thirteen months of people being, you know, at home, trapped in their homes? I would imagine that because of thatfact, the idea of sending people physical artifacts is more popular than ever, just as a way of breaking through the noise and kind of reaching somekind of human engagement when you're not allowed to, you know, have adrink with somebody or meet them in person. Yeah, I mean one hundred percent. I think I'll never forget the day that we got sent home.Right basically, I got a call and it was hey, you know,step newde at noon we're going to pretty much clear out the office and Iremember walking out thinking, all right, we'll be back in like two orthree weeks, this isn't a huge thing. Obviously I was wrong, but Iremember in the coming two or three days there were several meetings with,you know, our sales and marketing executive team where we basically had a redefineour own entire go to market motion. Right, the world to change instantlyand we made a very very cant just decision that we needed to change,but we couldn't stop. So we were able to continue to produce. We'reable to continue to be productive. We were able on the the SDR team, to still drive pipeline and you know, that project is something that would typicallytake months to pivot and we pivoted in like three weeks. So thatwas kind of the big initial shift. From there, as people settled intobeing remote and all of the events went...

...away, yes, sending became likereally their only option. So we had a nice trajectorygoing and then I thinkthere was like that moment of panic, like what's the world going to do, you know, March of last year, and then by like mid April orMay, people were kind of settling in and they needed to get backto their sales and marketing campaigns and Sandosa was there. So yeah, Imean we evolved a lot as a company. We did some things to accelerate certainfeatures on our road map or things like address confirmation that we really pushthat to the forefront because we knew that was going to be more pivotal nowright, I can't just send something to your office. I need a wayto get something to your home. So you know, it's as an organization, I've never seen a company shift as fast as we were able to,and it set us up to be really, really successful in a really, reallydifficult time. That's awesome. And and how have what shifts of theseseen from buyers, you know, and from people and from marketers that areimplying direct sending? Obviously I must, you must have seen an explosion,but to use about like some of the trends that you've seen. Yeah,it's funny. We actually just released a state of sending report that talks alot about this. You know, I think that emails, right and soso. Cold emails increased by like sixty two percent. Virtual events disappeared,cold calls increased by twenty eight percent. So like all of that just becameoverwhelming. Right. It factors into this digital fatigue and that becomes a hugebarrier in either customer engagement a prospect engagement. Sindoso kind of gives people away toreally sell to the human right. I mean ninety one percent of thepeople that responded to our survey said that a human connection is more important nowthan it was. Like that's what Sindoso does. It makes selling human.Again, if a sales reup takes the time to do a little bit ofresearch, find out way you went to school, what's your favorite sports teamis, and then delivers some really thoughtful, personalized messaging along with whether it's amug or a hat or some sort...

...of like a catchy pun that's goingto catch your attention, over another one of those six hundred automated emails thathit your in box today. And that's that's really how we've built this thingup. What do you see? D see is sending the new is,you know, I'm sure I'm you work for Syndosis. I'm sure I canpredict your answer, but confirming and the is it here to stay? Youknow, do you think that, even when we were turned to the officeand sort of there's a little bit more in person and human connection, ordo you feel like this is established itself as just a really meaningful way?Because it's it's really funny, you know. I mean people used to send itwasn't things as much as it was like postcards and direct mail, andif you check your mailbox you still get, you know, dozens and dozens ofreal estate stuff. But and then it was out of favor for awhile and now sending is back. Do you feel like it's here to stay? Do you feel like it's, you know, a trend? What's yourperspective on kind of like the medium and long term future for getting stuff inthe mail from companies that are trying to sell you stuff? Yeah, Ione hundred percent think it's here to stay and I don't think it's just becauseI work for sendos. But that's that probably makes me a little bit biased, as you pointed out another one of you know the stats from the stateascending is direct mail is expected to be the number is the number one tacticthat sales and mact leaders are planning to use in two thousand and twenty one. Now I know the part of that might be from covid but there's alot of other avidus is a lot of other taxes that a lot another alot of other tools and the spend that we're seeing in this space I thinkamplified quickly because of covid in the work from home environment, but it wasalready climbing before. So I think as we return this is going to bepart of companies just built in ADM outbound sales marketing and CS motions, andit's not something that's going to go away because at the end of the day, you can't argue when you have a sixty or seventy percent response rate,they find me an email, cats or sequence. It's going to do thatfor you? It's not. But if you have well thought bought out aBM ABM process and play where your leveraging...

...sending in the right places to theright prospects and you're garnering a seventy percent response rate and that's turning into meaningfulconversations, which turned into pipeline and revenue, you can't afford to cut that outbecause the people that are using in to run pasture. Yeah, I'dthink that you're dead on. Your dead on and and make a great point. I want to shift perspectives a little bit or topics, because you aresuch a great leader of development, sales development, and you know there's thisconstant debate about who sales development should report to. Is it marketing or isit sales? And I have my own perspective on it, but I'm alwayscurious to hear different people's perspective. What are your thoughts on you know,the SDR team the BEDR team. WHO SHOULD THEY REPORT TO? Marketing tomake sure that they got tight messaging or sales, because that's the future oftheir careers. What are your thoughts? One of my favorite topics. Iand I don't know that this is the most popular opinion, but I personallybelieve that sales development is moving in a direction of becoming its own pillar.It's not sales, it's not marketing, it's the bridge between the two ina lot of ways. So I really think that if you look at howsales teams and sales development things have evolved over the last two or three orfour or five years, sales development has really become its own function and andand that's why you have this debate, because they don't fit perfectly into sales. They don't fit perfectly into marketing. They do a different job. Therethat piece in between the two. So I do think like as companies continueto scale and, you know, people really start to hammer down abm processesand things get more personalized and there's this human to human selling idea that Ireally think is going to be the way that we're moving into. I thinkthat that means like sales development becomes a little more of a specialized skill.Now I understand a lot of people come into sales development and they want tomove into, you know, a counter executive roles, and I think likethat's still a perfectly fine career path. But I think that a couple ofyears ago the assumption was you could take...

...any sales leader and they could runa sales development team, but you could not necessarily take a sales development managerand put them in charge of full cycle reps with no experience. And that'sprobably still true. But I don't know that you can take any full cyclesales leader who is never been in str or really like run an str motionand expect them to be able seamlessly step in and run that team at thelevel that that like these world class organizations run. So I think we're we'reseeing that shift. I really think that, you know, the proper places iskind of a pillar on the go to market team that sits, youknow, between marketing and sales. I think you're making some great points andI think I think that's good, because the problem a lot of the times, and exactly to your point about like any any full cycle sales lader canrun an st our team, is that you've got people that become amazing SDRsand the natural place for them might be, because they might also be great teachers, is to become SDR managers. But then they worry that the SDRmanager position is kind of a dead end, that it doesn't really go anywhere.You still need full cycle experience to be the VP of sales and ifyou're ansty our manager, you might get stuck managing sdrs but not be ableto progress up to a VP title. And so the idea that becoming great, a great sales development leader can become its own path to, you know, the c suite and a path to a cro is probably a really goodthing for people's careers. I think yeah, absolutely. I mean two years agoI think you would have been hard pressed to find a VP of salesdevelopment or some of them that had my title in my exact responsibility. Andyou're seeing more and more and more VP level titles. So I think it'sonly a matter of time before there's a C level title. It's just anatural progression. The job is getting more technical, the job is moving,you know, in some ways further away from closing but also further away from, like Brandon Buzz and like mql development...

...right it's really becoming its own pillarand I think that it's only a matter of time before a lot of companiesstart to break it off. Makes a lot of sense. Joe, we'realmost at the end of our time together and this is the part where welike to figure out your influences. If we one day want to become JoeVenuty and become a professional, professional poker player at some point, what dowe need to do? Who are the people that have influenced you? Ifyou think about like great books you've read or great mentors, people that youthink we should know about, what comes to mind? So I have beenlucky that I've had a lot of really great managers, that people that manageme directly throughout my career and then have turned into mentors. You know,and I touched on at the very beginning I was talking abour time at secure. To us, you know, my first real boss was also, youknow, a mentor someone I can still consider a close friend, is namedShauno dwire. As I look across like the sales world, I've been verylucky to be able to work and communicate with people like like Mark Robarg andMandy Cole, who are now part of stage through capital. You know,I've been fortunate to have a couple of meetings and conversations with them and justbeing able to like pick their brain and get validation from them. Right.I mean sometimes I'm thinking of something that it feels a little bit, youknow, off the wall and all of a sudden they're like no, that'sa great idea, like we actually did it like that, you know,in this scenario, like to have that level of validation is always been hugefor me. Another person that they I really respect and work with a lotis Lauren Bailey, the founder of factor eight, the Girls Club. I'vebecome pretty involved with girls club. As a mentor Lauren I become really,really good friends. I think that she's an amazing person. She is kindof amazing energy and yeah, yeah, Lauren's Lauren's one of my favorites.And if people I don't know well personally but really seem to get a lotout of like but I see them on a podcast or just like linked incontent, Scott Lee's always comes to mind. Grad I think that everyone knows Scott. He's an amazing thought leader. But whenever I get a chance tolisten to him or take a second and read something. These put out alwaysseems to be a ton of value.

They're awesome. I think you mentionedI think you mentioned books. My favorite book by far is extreme ownership.But I think that it's nice because it moves away from like the shot everyother sales book, but I think that it really talks a lot about howto own your business and own the things you're responsible for and really be agood, solid leader. So extreme ownerships like the default book that I goto. To. What somebody ask for a good book recommendation? You filea Jocko on twitter. I do. I do. He actually has apodcast that I've been listening to. I get to the game, lates on, like eight hundred episodes behind or something, but I'll get through them. He'syeah, he's an intense guy. It's a great book, Joe.If folks are listening and they want to get in touch, what's the bestway to get in touch? Linkedin's probably the best. Just jove Nuty,I'm pretty responsive, so feel free to send me a connection or send mea note. I'm I'm pretty responsive. Awesome, Joe. Thanks so muchfor being on the show. Sorry for the background noise. I'm in themiddle of New York City. You've got birds chirping in your background, butI'm drilling and cycerd so yeah, it's actually it's really nice in Arizona.So I got the window. Yeah, three weeks away from from living inan oven, so I'm trying to take advantage. Yeah, exactly. Ilive next to a hospital, so that's great, but we'll talk to youon Friday for for Friday fundamentals. Awesome. Sounds good. Sam, thanks somuch for having me. Thanks for being here. Hey, everybody,SAM's corner. Really enjoyed that conversation with Joe Venuti. Great great person,great sales leader, and it's really cool to see the rise of this functionthat he's in, that he's responsible for not just insight sales but sales developmentand really elevating the roll of demand generation within organizations, which I think isis going to be really exciting and interesting. So I love the conversation. Thanksfor listening and I think it's also just fascinating everything that's been happening withdirect mail right with everything that's been going...

...on. We're all living at home. How do you how do you stand out when everybody's on zooms all day, and in one of the ways that you do that is through tactile engagementwith physical artifacts, and that's that's what Sindoso does. It's it's a powerfulnew category and it's great because, you know, we used to think ofdirect mail, is like, you know, mailers from real estate agents that stuffup your mailbox, and for my mail box that still is the majorityof the mail I receive. But sends it can really change the game becauseall of a sudden now you're receiving actual physical goods. We use them atrevenue collective and every new member that signs up for an annual plan that's anexecutive, gets a water bottle, gets a book by Latin Conan. Thechief marketing officer at six sense gets a handwritten note for me, all withina custom design box. All of that comes from send Ohso, so it'sreally cool. Joe's a great guy and they also are doing great things withthe Phoenix area, just building up that that ecosystem, which I think isso important. So and I think it's thoughts on sort of the evolution ofsales development are also really interesting. So I love the conversation. Want tothank our sponsors. Of course, outreaches the first sponsor, the number onesales engagement platform. Of course, if you want to see how our outreachuses outreach to drive success for outreach, head on over to outreach, dio, forward slash on outreach to see what they've got going on. Of course, we want to thank propose a FY propose a five proposals close at doublethe industry standard. Great. Sign up for a free trial or book ademo at propose a FYCOM for sales hacker. If you're not a part of thesales hacker community yet, you're missing out. Any sales professional can joinas a member to ask questions, get immediate answers and share experiences with likeminded be tob sales professionals. Thanks for listening. Hope you can subscribe it. Also, give us five star review, if you would know through star reviews. If you hated the podcast today and just really can't wait to turnthis off, then you know, keep it to yourself, but if youloved it, give us a five star review. If you want to getin touch when you can linkedincom forwards. Lash the word in for M FJacobs. You can email me Sam revenue collectivecom otherwise I'll talk to you nexttime.

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