The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode · 1 month ago

191: Grow Your Startup Organically Outside of a Major Market

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Brian Trautschold, Cofounder and COO at Ambition, a 10-year-old sales gamification startup based in Tennessee, not the Bay Area or Atlanta. Join us for an inspiring conversation about perseverance and organic growth outside of a major market.

What You’ll Learn 

  1. Perseverance is the key to gaining traction
  2. Benefits to growing your company in Chattanooga
  3. Baking an ecosystem of encouragement into your company
  4. Why gamification is such a powerful concept in sales 

Show Agenda and Timestamps 

  1. About Brian Trautschold & Ambition[2:15]
  2. The power of gamification [7:00]
  3. Advantages to growth outside a major market [15:30]
  4. Using available tools to strengthen culture [22:31]
  5. Paying it forward [28:25]
  6. Sam’s Corner [31:05]

One, two, one, three, three, pay everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the sales occerpodcast. Today on the show we've got Brian troutsch old. Brian is thecofounder and CEO of ambition, which is a really amazing company. They've beenaround quite a while, but they are working in the space of helping companiesenhance and define their culture through better sales coaching, through sales gamification and andreally building an ecosystem of encouragement, which is how they frame it, andit's fantastic and they're doing really, really well. They just raised a bigground. So it's a great conversation. Before we get there, three sponsorsto tell you about. The first is outreach. Today's podcast is sponsored byoutreach, that Io. outreaches the first and only engagement and intelligence platform builtby revenue innovators for revenue innovators. Outreach allows you to commit to an accuratesales forecasting, replace manual processes with real time guidance and unlock actionable customer intelligencethat guides you and your team to win. More often, traditional tools don't workin a hybrid sales world. Find out why outreach is the right solution. At get your pens out, click dot outreach that Io Forzo MPC thatyou arel again and against. If you're walking on the sidewalk, stop walking, get out your phone, type it into the note section. Clicked out, out, reached, IO, forward, slash thirty MPC. We're also broughtto you by pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out ofyour career. Our private membership gives you access to thousands of like minded peers, dozen of courses in schools for Pavilion University and over Onezero work books,template scripts and playbooks to accelerate your development. This December, meaning as you're listening, pavilion is partnering with Ecology to Plant Fiftyzero trees and try and removesome carbon from the atmosphere. For every member that's joined, that joins that'sreferred by another member, will plant two hundred and fifty trees per persons.That's five hundred trees. So help us plant fiftyzero trees this holiday season andsign up using a friends referral link. Finally, vidyard. Vid Yard isthe best way to sell in a virtual world, whether you need to connectwith more leads, qualify more opportunities or close more deals. VIDYARDS video messagesmake it easy record your Webcam, your screen or both to make prospecting videos, follow ups product Demos another communication that drives virtual selling. Try vidyard forfree by signing up at vidyardcom. Forwards Lash free. Now let's listen myconversation with Brian Trout Sholt. Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to thesalesacker podcast. Today on the show we're incredibly excited to have Brian Trout shold. Brian is the CO founder and the Chief Operating Officer at ambition, whichis a really exciting company based out of Chat Nooga, Tennessee. It's theleading sales and gate Gamification, Sales Gamification and coaching platform. Brian spent tenlong years in startup land. He's cofounded two other companies besides ambition, andhe's also an angel investor and invests in supports the Tennessee and the southeastern startup ecosystem. Brian, welcome to the show. Yeah, thank you,Sam. I appreciate you. Appreciate you having me. We're excited to obvious. So I gave a little bit of your overview when I when I wastalking about your bio, but what we...

...really want to do is give youan opportunity to tell us a little bit about ambition. We call that yourbaseball card. But so you know, and I've known jared for a reallylong time, but tell us about ambition, tell us about the company and sortof some of the context and background. Yeah, well, I think it'sit's really useful to start in the background. I think, and I'msure you've lived this life. To you, but I started my career as a, you know, a sales rep which really meant I was a,you know, hustler on the phone, making a lot of dials for reallylarge technology company, is probably a lot of us did in our in ourworld, and what I found twelve years ago was that the systems in placeto manage people, to recognize people, to really, you know, ensurethat you were high performing, we're really lacking. You've got, like,you know, these traditional set of training programs, you've got really archaic reportingand a lot of organizations and then you've got like the Gong sitting on themanager's desk. This this before gone with company existed night, like the physicalthe actual thing that you beat. Yeah, the gone with the Malot next toit and it was, you know, as a as a young person,you coming out of college like it was kind of shocking. And sowhat what admission, I think, helps us solve and hopes to solve,is that, you know, we've been believe people have all of this putto potential. We're trying to unlock that, especially when people who are facing thecustomers, because, as as our customers understand, that's where the magichappens. If you can give those people to be excited, motivated, engagedcontinually developing, they're going to grow your business and they're going to be greatchampions for your customers. And so that's the problem we solved. We dothat with with software and a series of tools to help managers and sales leadersdrive the performance of those reps and make sure they stay with the company.So it's been a lot of fun. It's a year journey right now,but couldn't be more excited about the company today. So where is the whereis the the company and its growth trajectory in terms of like how many people, Rough Arr range, how much money, if you raise that kind of stuff? So we can get a sense of like where you are in thisprogression. Yeah, well, I mean it's changing every day. I'd saywe're in the one of those periods of just rapid growth and rapid change.I think we came into two thousand and twenty one, or I'll forty threepeople. I think today, which is a Friday when we're recording this,there were there eighty one people at ambition, you know, so closing in ondoubling for the year and headcount. The company is really taken off asfar as growth. I'd say in the middle of two thousand and twenty thingswere things were scary, as probably was for everyone. A lot was happeningand changing. But I think as people have gone one remote or hybrid ortried to figure out how they replicate or or, you know, put inplace new coaching processes, put it place new ways to engage their employees,well we do, is become really important, especially, I think, it largerorganizations, where culture can be really...

...challenging when it's not all small andyou're not, you know, kind of in the same philosophical room. Andso the growth has been awesome. You know, we're about we're closing iton some major milestones for us and we just raised the big round of fundingas she was one of those miles. Says, we raised fifteen million dollarsfrom a great equity firm called premise capital, based in Atlanta, and that justclosed in October, which is last month and actually a month and alittle bit ago. But you graduates. Great. Yeah, the company israised twenty, just over twenty one million dollars total, which is different froma lot of peers in our our ecosystem. But you know, we've gone froma company that I think was very focused on being at least close tobreak even and in the last two years, as as like the Marcus Signals,I think I've pushed us. It's it's time to grow, it's timeto poor more if you want to that fire, so to speak, andpromise has been an amazing partner of the last couple of month since we've donethat. That's awesome. So yeah, I think you know, you mentionedwhen we were chatting offline, it's been an extremely long ten years that you'vebeen working on startups and and, like I said in the Intro, I'veknown about ambition for probably exactly, you know, as long as you allhave been been around and when I was first introduced. You know, itwas really presented to me as essentially like fantasy football for salespeople. It was. It was only about gamification, it wasn't really about culture and it wasn'treally about coaching. Walk us through because I just think, especially because nowyou're finally and I don't mean this in it, I mean it's just atestament to perseverance, I think, because y'all are finally like growing, probablyat the rate that you want to be growing at, but it's been it'sbeen a while that you've been working on this walk through like the peaks andvalleys in the journey that you've been on over the last couple of years asyou've been focused on building this business and specifically how the kind of like thevision or the value proposition is expanded. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate yousay that, because I do think, you know, jared and Travis mightto co founders. I think one of the things that we have in spade, is in spades, is perseverance and kind of that grip factor, andI think that, you know, companies that are forged that way are reallychallenging to compete with, and I think that gives us an edge in alot of ways. It's in our Dada at this point. But same youmention. You said it like that was the pitch in two thousand and fourteen. Fantasy fantasy football for your sales team, or faith through fantasy football for sales, which is, I will say, a pretty good intro conversation, likepeople will at least two in for that when you cold call them.But it's not like. It's not the need to have sustainable platform that everyrevenue team is like living and breathing. If we're being honest, gamification isgreat. Gamification as a concept is extremely powerful. As a Peloton writer,as a person who checks their Apple Watch, like all those things, if frommy activity rings, like all those...

...things are gave a fine. Icheck my Delta Sky bials like every week, even to being an endemic even,yeah, care when they when they when they bumped out my status.That really made my day. Yeah, they gave us all. They gaveme platinum for another year, even though I didn't fly anywhere. Exactly likethat. You know that, like we know that right. That's givefcation inyou know, in practice, and the reality that is like that's one.I'd say. That's gamification and creating that engagement in that in that way isit's just one tool in the tool kid or one Arrow in the quiver.And what we believe, and what we believed now for a few years,is that there's a lot more, a lot bigger problems to solve, andI mentioned that with the coaching because you know, I think I'll get toyour question this in this response. But we did when built a bission.Originally it was we as we built a really powerful, really smart metric processingengine, which is a nerdy way of saying like we could take in allof this important data about what your reps are doing in a variety of differentplaces they're doing it. That could be sales for CRM, that could besales loft or outreach. That could be gone, that could be enterprise order, major bent system, whatever it is like. These things all are runningin parallel and a lot of organizations and we can bring in the data fromthose and give people a really holistic view, three hundred and sixty view of theirtheir folks performance, centered around the actual individuals, the teams, andthen the context of what those teams and individuals are trying to do, likethe goals and objectives they have and I say all that because you know onethat's pretty hard, like when you actually get into organizations. And he talkedto, you know, leaders of sales enablement teams or sales productivity or sometimesit's in a BI team. They're doing like really complex stuff in tableau ordemo or looker to do that and they were reporting it back to leaders orfrontline managers at a much more inconsistent basis, maybe weekly, maybe every other weekor there's not getting it. And you know, early stage admission,we're building this gamification platform or trying to power contests or incentives around a seriesof metrics. To do this fantasy football thing. Well, we basically hadto build build this really robust data platform, and so we have all of thesemetrics that people care about. We have all this insight and context totheir performance that people care about and a credit to the customers. A lotof folks were like man, this would be really useful for my one hundredand one or where this would be really useful for my performance review or youknow, we're creating goal we're creating contests here. Can you tell me,like how impactful this contest was? You can you? Can you tell mewhat the change in this reps performance has...

...been since we started doing x,Y or Z. Those are big questions and you know, as we kindof, let's say, serve more and more folks in especially the enterprise anduppermid market space, we realize how much value that had to those businesses.And so this, you know, this journey or this evolution, I think, has been really driven by the voice of the customer and US trying to, you know, continually solve more problems for both VP or director of salesor director of sales development, head of customer success, people who manage teamswith pretty distinct metrics, and then give more tools to the front of mymanager to make changes to drive the outcome, because they want their reps to besuccessful, they want them to hit quota or whatever the metric is,and you know, a lot of times they need actionable insights and tools todo that. Where there are times when you thought about giving up or orquitting in a you know, it's it. I asked that because you know,when you're working on an early stage company, it's not it's not superlucrative from a cash perspective most of the time and you know, I knowthat you've got kids and you got a family. What was it like psychologicallyover the last couple of years as you were trying to get this business towhere it is now and, you know, finally having clothes like a great roundand you got y'all are growing on the way to twenty million. It'sreally, really exciting. But what was the psychological impact of, you want, working on this over the last ten years? Well, you know whatI have, like you mentioned, I have an amazing family and I nowhave three kids, said by third son, congratulation. We yeah, thank you, three weeks ago this week. So first of all, you know, like I having an incredible partner of my wife, who has distressed mylife in a lot of ways, like sometimes also stressing it out a littlebit, but over unbalanced, destressing a lot of things. And you know, I think the bigger thing this is, you know, anyone who's considering startedcompany or is doing it, you've got to have great founder, Cofounders, like who you trust implicitly and who you know you can rely on, and that makes it. That makes it, you know, I think, survivable, because you're right, like there's a lot of it's a rollercoaster every time something great happens, you like Oh shit, what's about tohappen? It's bad, like you know, it can't be all roses all thetime. But if you feel like hey, I've got a really goodcofounder or founders with me, I trust them, I know they have mybest interest at heart, it's something you can do. And so we'd startedtwo companies before admission together. That didn't go well. So, like,we've been through some shit before. We had really good investors who could youknow? I'd say, continue to encourage us to do it. And youknow, we talked about this, like there's there's this constant highlight real whetherit is, you know, a new rep starting and then closing a dealquickly or, you know, new engineer coming in and talking about like wow, this is like a really robust platform. Of coming from some other great softwarecompany, I don't even see this stuff. Those are the little thingsthat, you know, they just they...

...build it up and it's been doingthis long enough to see people have kids who are growing up or, youknow, building a life round ambition, like it's pretty special. And soI don't think there's ever a moment I can I can tell you with certainty. There's never been like a man. That's time to hang us up,because there's always a lot more good than there's been shitty days. That's awesome. That's awesome. What's what's it like building a coup? You know y'allare it's not just E. didn't even move to Atlanta. You know you'reyou're in Chattanooga. What was it like building a start up, and Imean that. Y'All have worked on three startups now, so and it seemslike you are committed to the yea Chattanooga, you know, startup scene. Whathas it been like building a company? I'm sure there's disadvantages, but Ibet there's advantages to in building a company outside of, you know,one of these big major markets. I feel there's outside hell. I appreciateyou dropping that Y'all on me a couple times too. I see y'all allthe time. I'm from Virginia, so you know it's not so far.You're a UVA Guy, right, I am a UVA guy. Yeah,I there. I used to say this this phrase and it's like we wereman. Now I'm like, I'm black. I been like we're isolated, butwe're not like completely like cut off from cut off from Human Gott,you know, like what one of the things that I think was very useful. So ambission went through Y combinator, we went through I common there intwo thousand and fourteen. We raise the seed round. Coming out of thatwe had a lot of momentum for building fantasy football for sale, seems.And you know, one of the best things that I think we ever didwas we're walking around pioneer way, which is this little street next to whycommentator's office, with Paul Graham, who it was his last class, andhe's he's talking us through. This is his super already. Yeah, Imean I remember this vividly. And where this you know, these guys whokind of like just shut down another company. We're going through Y see. Soyou y'all are living in San Francisco at that point. Is that right? Yeah, Mount View. This is before why I see. It movedup to San Francisco. So this is in mountain view and we were therefor about six months, like during the YC program and shortly after while wewere raising the seed round. And he asked, he had to two profoundthings that are relevant to this conversation. One is like if you're not goingto buy the domain ambitioncom, just change the name, like which is kindof a wild take today because a lot of people have notcom domains. Butin two thousand and fourteen that was like those pretty shocking advice because it wasvery expensive domain. And then the other question was, okay, well,you guys have been doing this, you know doing why? See here you'regot a couple people still tried to go. When are you going to move thecompany here? And I remember, you know, having this conversation thatnight at the rental like House that we...

...had an amount view of, likeokay, what are we going to do? And it was pretty resounding for thethree of us, like we don't need to move the company here.We serve customers who are not just in the bay area. We started witha lot of a lot of focus on our early customers were in logistics andlike three Pel logistics, which is very middle America industry. They don't carewhere our office is and, you know, goes back to like we decided tocome back. We thought that the majority of our customers for the forat least the initial period, would be kind of that flyover country type businesseswhich was probably true, and the thing that I think it allowed us todo. You mentioned being in this company for for eight years. We didn'thave the pressure to raise a ton of money and have a ton of growthright out of the gate. We could build and we could kind of marinateon what was working, we could listen to the market, and so Ithink if ambition had been a company with us moving to San Francisco versus,versus staying in Chad Nuga, it would have been much more expensive, wewould have a much higher degree of pressure to find immediate success or media productmarket fit, and I think that the company wouldn't have made it. Ithink the ability to extend, really take time to build a platform that's robustand extremely, you know, extremely, I would say, flexible for ourcustomers. It takes time and and ultimately I think we were able to finda more important product market fit than if we had to sprint to at leastan additional one in the first, you know, call a year or twowhile we were if we move to San Francisco. That's a great take.What's it like? You mentioned you, you, you know you. Youwere sort of running it close to break even, running the business close tobreak even and now you flipped to burning. It sounds like. How does thatfeel? As you know a group of people that have been doing thisa long time, because I speaking from personal experience. You know, wewere running it, my business, pavilion, for profitability and now we're burning.You know, it's still it. Now we're running it for a breakeven from profitability and even that and some months we burn I don't know,a hundred grand, even though we raise twenty five million. It still feelsweird. That feels yeah, I guess. How does it free for you guys? I really appreciate you saying that because I think what I think.We're probably very similar in that philosophy. You know, I think that there'sdifferent signals and I'm sure that you know with the fundraise you all did,and I can't get to a linked in a profile that doesn't have like pavilionmember on it right now, like everyone I feel like I talked to isin you know, I think that. I think it feels, a littlebit, you know, uncomfortable, but probably it's probably good uncomfortable in thatyou know personally, and I'm sure you are the similar way. Like oncethe signals in the business are being allowed enough where it's like hey, thisis really working. Like pick a random example, like sales development is justworking great, like everyone who comes in is ramping quickly and they're hitting theirnumber and they're, you know, eager...

...to, you know, continue that, like it almost doesn't make sense not to start adding more and I knowthat. I mean there's companies that I think can fool themselves into those signalsor convince themselves those signals are there. Another side for us is, youknow, you continue, you start winning enterprise customers, you start to havethese large contracts and long term contracts and you start realizing, like man,there's a lot more we could do with this customer or we could, youknow, we can go get ten of these because of X, Y Zfactor, which means you need to invested in engineering and customer support and customersuccess, which are not immediate payoffs, but but you know, you cankind of foresee how they're going to work out in a few quarters. Andso that's been I think that's been a challenge for us as founders, goingfrom a very constrained environment to a less constraint environment. Ultimately, and Iwouldn't say this to anyone. I'm sure you all have a great leadership team, but you know, surrounding yourself as a founder or founders or, youknow, executive with really smart people makes makes the decisions a lot easier,makes it makes it feel a little bit less daunting to say, hey,we're going to we're going to really accelerate some of the spending, because it'snot just you and your own head making those making that business case. That'sI love that perspective. We're almost at the end of our time together,but both one of the questions I did want to ask you was just aboutculture, because I know ambition is working on culture. That's part of what. That's better what. You helped the liver in many senses and we've gotthis this world where it was really funny because I don't know if you readFred Wilson, but you know on Thanksgiving Day he writes this blog post andhe says, you know, I'm so grateful that we finally learned how tomanage covid and we're out of it and you know, we've got the toolsand the and the resources necessary. which was exactly the same day that theyannounced that Omicran was in South Africa and spreading across the world. So Iguess the point is it's starting to feel like this world like that we're notgoing to have clear certainty on on a lot for a while, for along time potentially, particularly as there's more mutations and etc. And so howdo you think about culture and what advice do you give to companies that arestruggling to figure out should we be all remote? Should we be in theoffice? Are we hybrid? How do we make sure that, if wedo go to all remote, that we don't lose a sense of ourselves thatis still a fun place to work? What's your advice and perspective on thatand maybe how does ambition help solve that problem? Yeah, well, it'scertainly ongoing complexity. She like I wouldn't, I wouldn't pretend to give people adviceon what their company should do because ultimately I think you've got to readthe Rim under employees and be safe, whatever the whatever the case may be. As far as our customers go, you know, we're seeing we're servingreally large customers, fortune five hundred and...

...fortunate one hundred customers who have thousandsof sellers. Typically globally and they may most of them, I should say, used to be in a, you know, an onsite model, sothey would have sales centers globally. They may be in ten major cities inthe US or they maybe in fifty major cities with the smaller locations, andthat would be like your traditional inside sales for you know, sales of alopmentpeople in some of those offices, account management and on. You know,you've been in these environments and if you're if you've been in sales for,you know, probably more than a few years, you've seen it like itwas. The boiler Ram bottel, the boilery model, had a lot ofI'd say rituals that even today we all kind of Rely On for managing andcoaching sales people. That's you walking down the big open floor plan with lotsof people on the phone. You're able to kind of hear how calls aregoing, you're able to have a debrief with someone right away. Positive reinforcementis very easy, like as simple as the high five or those stupid Gongthing on the desk, not the real gong product, which I think isgreat. Like those things are all gone and like you used to go getcoffee or you say you know when to do a quick check in with someone, talk about pipeline. You like walk to the coffee machine or you gowalk out and get lunch, while all that's basically broken. Those rituals don'twork anymore and the way that people were doing management has to change. Andso, you know, we're finding these companies who would rag and recruit basedon how great the office culture is and how great the environment is to comework. That was like a selling point of these companies. It just doesn'texist anymore, and I think that sense of community, that sense of,you know, being a part of something and being aligned to the organization hasreally changed. And so when we talk about culture of people, it can'tbe forced, it can't be like hey, when you do something, well,say, I'm come bring the Gong by my desk, like no onewants pet and it doesn't the opportunity to do it is is there anymore.So we have to, you know, use utilize the tools we have,we have to automate these things, we have to be smarter about it andwe have to really send the signals from, you know, from the systems,and this is one of the things that the admission does to the peoplewho are going to coach on it, manage on it, recognize celebrate it, whether that's a manager, whether that's a a VP of sales, whetherthat's their entire team, to create awareness, because I think that, you know, as we've gone highbred, remote whatever, it's become very isolating andwhen you're when you're isolated, when you're in your apartment or house and you'remaking a ton of calls or doing a ton of demos or talking to customersall day, if it's going well or not, you're still by yourself.You want to feel like you're part of something. You want to feel likeyou're, you know, adding to the to the company, you're contributing,people are recognizing and seeing what you're doing. And so one of the funny thingsabout internal ambition story. You know, fourteen or whatever it is, eighteenmonths ago, we sell provit. You know, one of our products. It's on TV's and has alerts and...

...leaderboards and metrics and stuff. ThoseTVs wouldn't be in the non sales areas typically, like we wouldn't put oneby the engineering team or something, but we have lots of alerts that fireoff into other systems now email, slack, Microsoft teams, and it could beas simple as Sam just reach this goal, or could be you know, Brian just had his best week ever in terms of closing. Something likethat, something cool. You know. Now that's happening virtually, and sowhen those alerts go off, the whole company knows about it. Like we'recreating this awareness, in this sense of recognition, and we call it ecosystemof encouragement. That goes way beyond just the sales or sales development or revenueteam. Like the whole company's tuning in and then they're reacting, their collaborating, their celebrating each other success and it feels like more of a cousive environment, I think, even than it did before it was just on the salesfloor, you know, two years ago. So you know, we're trying tofigure out and work with companies to create that cohesion, to bring allof those important signals into one place and then let people react, let peopleact on those things. You know, high five their teammates, whether it'svirtual or in real life, and that's, I think, really important now thatthese organizations have kind of decentralized in those cases. I love that,I love that example and I love that phrase ecosystem of encouragement. So that'sawesome. Brian. We're almost at the end of our time together. Oneof the things we like to do in this last bit is pay it forwarda little bit and figure out who are people or books or ideas or podcaststhat has influenced you that we think that you think we should know about.So it could be a great investor, could be Paul Graham, it couldbe it could be you know as John Barrows, it could be any bookyou've read, it could be a movie scene. But when you think aboutthings that you think the world should know about that have influenced you, whatcomes to mind? Your throwing all these people who aren't like enough to havemet in some way that I that I don't want to not say now.Like you know, John Barrows has an amazing podcast. Love John Paul Grahamsamazing to friend. Wilson is a great, great writer. But so this one'stopical for me or very recent. I just read winners dream, winnersdream, which is by bill McDermott, who who's now the CEO of service. Now he's previously the CEO of sap and I think he started as asalesperson at Xerox, if I recall the beginning of the book. But winnersdream, it's it's I'd say it's a great bugs. It's actually read byhim. If you get the audio version and it you know, it kindof goes through like this, this path of that a lot of us havebeen on, which is going from a you know, a fresh new seller, whether you're coming out of out of college or from a different career,you know, and he's literally selling doortodoor sally like copying machines for Xerox andnow he's been CEO at some of the...

...biggest software companies in the world.But it's just inspiring. I think it's a lot of really practical advice andit's a great book. It's good listen, I would say, too awesome.That's awesome, Brian. If if boks are listening and they want toget in touch with you, maybe they want to buy ambition, maybe theywant to learn more about your Jurney, maybe they're in Chattanooga and want tofigure out how they can start in a company near you. What's the bestway to get in touch with you? Yeah, I'd love. I'd loveto connect on linked in. I think I think I'm the only Brian TroutSchild on linked in, so please find me here. I think there's onlytwo of us in the world actually, and we're I think we're related.I think we're like second cousins. But also happy to connect on on twitterand, of course, please, you know, find me at Ambitioncom,which Paul Graham kind of forced us to buy. I'd love to hear fromyou'd love to help out however I can. Awesome. Thanks, brand thanks somuch for joining us on the salesacer podcast and we're going to talk toyou on Friday for Friday fundamentals. All right. Thanks Sam. Hey everybody. Sam's corner, Sal Sacer podcast. As you know, great conversation withBrian Trout shold. A couple things that I pulled from it. First ofall, perseverance. As I mentioned, I got to marry to know jared, one of his other cofounders, way back when I was working at acompany called axial and and they've been doing this for a really, really longtime and and working on it and persevering and now they're seeing growth past tenmillion an Rr on the way to twenty, raised fifteen million dollars and really seeingtraction and it's really exciting and it's just a testament to perseverance, asa testament to sticking with it. Now, bullet point number two. One ofthe ways they could stick with it is because they weren't based in amajor market. They were able to keep costs slow and grow organically because theydidn't move to the bay area and they didn't move to New York City andthey didn't even move to Atlanta. They're all in Chattanooga, Tennessee, wherethey're drinking bird bourbon and righting lines of code and encouraging reps to be betterand to do better and and it's just interesting in this fully in this remoteworld that we live in, where we've all got access to, you know, hopefully Wifi, into computers and technology and, as a consequence, toeach other. Maybe you don't need to be in San Francisco as much.Maybe you can be in Detroit, maybe you can be in Chatanooga, maybeyou can be in Boise Idahope, which I hear is beautiful but have neverbeen to. I'm in Tucson, Arizona as I record this and I've neverbeen here and it's actually quite nice. I saw a guy in the inand out that I was at yesterday with a gun on his belt, likeholstered on his belt like, I guess, Private Carrie laws. That was weird, but lether than that, I mean, maybe it's not weird.Hey, whatever. I felt scared. But my point is, like,there's lots of places to build a company now that we're all connected, andone of the benefits of that is is to enable you to keep your costslow, which can enable you to find the time to find product market fit. So something to think about. And finally, ecosystem of encouragement. Howdo you maintain culture in a remote world? Find ways to communicate and find peoplein your workforce where they are.

That's email, that's slack, that'sMicrosoft teams, that's text messaging, and celebrate people and maybe building automatic triggersand notific cation so that you can praise people. Everybody needs praise. I'malways I'm always I'm a sports fan and I'm always shocked. It's just soweird when when coaches walk in and you know they're being interviewed and they're like, well, I don't have to give them motivational speech, because these arethese are grown women or grown men. It's like I thought that what doesthat matter? Everybody needs some motivated everybody needs encouragement and praise, and maybethere's a few people that have so much inner drive and but but most peopledon't. So any right, great conversation. The hotel room where I'm staying,the AC just kicked on. Sorry for the background noise, but ifyou want to reach me, you can linkedincom forwards last the word in forits last. Sam F Jacobs, you can email me. Sama joined pavilioncomthanks to our sponsors, outreach, pavilion and, of course, fidyard.FIDYARD is really doing cool things, so give them a shot. You cansign up for free at vidyardcom forwards last free. Remember to give us fivestars on wherever you find your your podcast, spotify or itunes. I hope you'resafe, I hope you're sound, I hope you got some plans forthe holidays. Secular, not on whatever religion you are, we support you, but just make some time to step back, to take stock of whatyou did in two thousand and twenty one and hopefully look ahead to an evenbetter two thousand and twenty two. All right, I'll talk to you nexttime.

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