The Sales Hacker Podcast
The Sales Hacker Podcast

Episode 370 · 8 months ago

200: From AE to CEO: Entrepreneurial Life Lessons

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In the 200th episode of the Sales Hacker Podcast, we have Asad Zaman, CEO of Sales Talent Agency (STA), where he rose through the ranks from AE to CEO, earning recognition as Toronto’s Young Professional of the Year (2019). Join us for an entrepreneurial conversation about how to modernize your talent acquisition approach for both high growth and long-term growth.

What You’ll Learn

  1. There are over 40K more sales jobs openings than salespeople
  2. How COVID has affected sales salaries
  3. The importance of listening to the market instead of pursuing growth
  4. 4 ways to modernize talent acquisition

Show Agenda and Timestamps

  1. About Asad Zaman & STA[3:15]
  2. Asad’s tale of entrepreneurialism [7:21]
  3. Addressing chronic underemployment and high demand [13:35]
  4. 4 ways to modernize talent acquisition [22:26]
  5. Lessons learned from high growth companies [27:31]
  6. Paying it forward [29:29]
  7. Sam’s Corner [32:26]

Okay, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Before we jump into today's show, I've got two very special announcements for you. One, it's sales hackers birthday. Sales Hacker has been around since two thousand and thirteen, but on this day one year ago, we became a true sales community and have grown to nearly eighteen thousand members already. Now any sales professional can join as a member of SALESACCERCOM, ask questions and get fast and thoughtful answers. And the second announcement is that this very podcast just hit one million lifetime downloads. So we're celebrating all week long and we want to give out an exclusive prize to you are amazing listeners. To enter to win, go to the first discussion threat on sales haakercom and drop the link to your favorite sales hacker podcast episode. Thank you so much for tuning into the show and being a part of our community. Now let's get into it. Everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the SALESACER podcast. It is an exciting day. You know why? Because it's our two hundredth episode, two hundred different guests. Over the last almost four years we've been doing this we've been doing this since March, or two thousand and eighteen. We've had two hundred guests. That doesn't include that does not even include all of the Friday fundamentals episodes. If you had started doing them, maybe fifty in so another one hundred and fifty. We probably done three hundred and fifty total episodes. But this is our two hundred guests. It's Ausod Zamon Austad is, the CEO sales talent agency. You will love this interview this this is a great one for episode two hundred. Just an interesting human being, just a wonderful, articulate, thoughtful, hard working person that's really made his own way in the world. He started at sales talent agency as an account executive. He is now the CEO. He's a great person and and just really thoughtful and interesting. So I think you'll like it. Now, before we get there, we've got three sponsors for episode two hundred. The first is pavilion. Pavilion is the key to getting more out of your career. Our private membership connects you with the network of thousands of like minded peers and resources where you can tap into dozens of classes and training to Pavilion University. Have you seen linked in all of these people sharing their cro school certificates? Will you can be one of those people. In Roll in sales school, Sales Development School, marketing school and many, many more, for yourself or for your entire team. Learn more at joint PAVILIONCOM. We're also brought to you by mine. Tackle. Do only a few reps meet quota each quarter? Is the majority of your revenue driven by a few top performers? That does not have to be the case. Revenue Leaders Trust mind tackle to identify and drive winning sales rep behaviors so you can meet and beat quota every quota. Go to try doct mind, tickle DOTCOM forwardslash sales acker. Try Dot mind, ticklecom forwards sales acker to learn more. And finally, outreach, the first and only engagement and intelligence platform built by revenue innovators for revenue innovators. Outreach allows you to commit to accurate sales forecasting,...

...replace manual processes with real time guidance and unlock actionable customer intelligence that guys who in your team to win more often. Find out why outreach is the best solution. Click dot outreach dot io forwards. Thirty MPC. Now let's listen to episode two hundred with Asad Zaman. Hey, everybody, it's Sam Jacobs. Welcome to the salesaccer podcast. Today on the show we're excited to have a friend and a great CEO. It's Asad Zaman. He's the CEO of sales talent agency, which is the recruitment agency focused on helping their clients build elite go to market teams. STA covers North America, Europe and Asia Pacific and over the past fourteen years they've helped fifteen hundred companies higher elite go to market talent from Cros to betrs and everything in between, and along the way have facilitated over five hundred fifty million dollars in salaries. After taking an entrepreneurial path through university, asa joined STA in two thousand and fourteen as an account executive. In Two thousand and sixteen he founded their executive search division and in two thousand and eighteen launched a new division specializing in an underserved and fast growing part of the sales community, technical sales and sales engineers. Since joining STA, Aust is work closely with sea level executives. At fast growth technology companies to help them develop and refine their go to market hiring practices. And in two thousand and twenty, in the fourth quarter, he was appointed their CEO. He was also chosen by the Toronto Board of Trade as Toronto's young professional of the year in two thousand and nineteen, perhaps his greatest accomplishment. Asso, and welcome to the show. Thanks I having Missam. I'm excited. Well, we're excited. So I just gave a very lustrous bio. But sales talent agency, in your words, what do you all do? Give us a sense for how big is the organization and a little bit more about about Sta. certainly I can talk about this on and on, so when I've gone on for too long, let me know when I should shut up some. But the plot is started. So SALESTALN agency. We specialize in helping companies build out they go to market teams. We were founded in Canada fourteen years ago and at the time all we did was help companies in Canada hire for junior and midlevel sales roles. It's been fourteen years and along the way we have evolved in a few different ways. So the first day is we went from sales to the entire go to market org and we built our practices and technical sales and executive search, product marketing as a new practice for our customer success etc. We went end to end, so instead of just junior and midlevel, we now do cros down to bedrs and everything in between, and we expanded into a few different markets. So six years ago we entered the US and the US is now a pretty significant part of our business. About forty percent of our revenue comes from then. And last quarter we established operations in Europe and Asia Pacific and are having a really good time building those markets out and learning the differences and the similarities between the regions where we've had historical experience in these new markets in terms of the type of companies we work with. So we all sected GNOSTIC philosophically speaking, but I guess...

...because of the way the economy is going right now, most of all work is would software companies. We have some really large, wellknown clients like a sales force and sap, but I would say our bread and bought is helping companies post product market fit till the pre IPO stage, and we work with some great companies like arriscent and to paulty and teed's where we help them build out their teams. In terms of our size and stage, so we are about between ten to fifteen million and revenue we are about fifty ish. People. We're trying to get to about seventy five this year and we thoroughly enjoy the work we do. It's a small category, but it's a fun one and we enjoy the work we get to do within it. And when you when you describe the revenue range, that's not a sort of gross merchandise. Saw You. That's that's your commission. So in a sense we can assume that you're placing between two to three hundred million dollars worth of salaries every year. Is that an accurate assessment? I would say a little bit less than that. So are the total salaries we've facilitated is a little bit above half a billion, and last year we did forty seven point nine million. I would say roughly between forty two fifty five sixty million is how much we would do, depending on the type of projects we take on and they given. Yeah, I love it. So let's hear about your story, your journey. I know, first of all, I know it's it's fascinating. I know there's a lot of entrepreneuralism in it. And then, of course, I want to hear about you know, you joined as an ee and now you're CEO. That's a pretty amazing journey. So walk us through a little bit about your background, a little bit about how you got your start in sales, and then we'd love to hear about your journey up through the organization at St a specifically. Certainly. I came to Canada in two thousand and seven. I came as an international student looking to build out my life over here and at the time I came here to study public policy because I thought it was a nice way to go into law. Very quickly realized I am not going to be a good lawyer and so had to cross couret a little bit. I was also just doing different sorts of jobs, the quintessential new to a country and doing any job to make money type of story. And along the way I was startling. I wasn't making a lot of money and along the way I stumbled onto a sales roll which was a hundred percent commission sales role, door to door, and what we did in that company was in candidate snows a lot, so the snow compresses the soil on gardens and when the weather changes you have to poke holes in the soil to let the compressed air out. At least that's what we were told is happening with the stopped over to him, so they gave us some machine. They drop you in a neighborhood, your daughter knocked onto door and if you made some sales you can make some decent money. I ended up being pretty decent. On the second day I made more money than I would generally make in three weeks and I enjoyed it. It was hard work, we're fulfilling it was lucrative, it was exciting, and so that kind of shape the rest of my professional career because every thing I've done since had something to do with sales,...

...because I could sell. There were a bunch of guys on campus, and actually in some other universities as well, that had gotten together to create a start and while they were really strong technically, what they didn't have was any go to market expertise. I was no extreame mets, but by new more than them and they invited me in. I said, fantastic, let's do it and so that started the entrepreneurial path. We would the most uninvestable crew you would find in the market. We were bunch of international students who were just figuring everything out, and so eventually we landed up at a point where we needed to go and find jobs, and I remember I used to play poker at one point and it was a specific winter. I didn't have a work moment that winter. So Pota put me through, got me through life, and there was this guy on the table who thoroughly enjoyed his job amongst the crew of ten and the others hated their jobs, and he was a recruiter. So when I had to look for a job, I called him. I was I can you tell me a bit about what you do, and he explained it and I thought, Hey, this is interesting. So I thought I would prefer to do it in the world of sales and I found sales down agency. I knocked on their doors and then I was very lucky because Jamie, the founder, responded to my outreach and agreed to hire me and I've been hanging out here ever since. So how did you first of all, I love that story. You said you came to Canada in two thousand and six or seven seven, where'd you come from? I came from Byson. So I was born in Pakistan. I grew up over there. Actually came to university a little bit older than most people come. I came when I would think I was just earning twenty ceruse I we do a levels in Pakistan which requires an extra year of schooling, and then I had to wait for a year for my visa. So I came when I was about later on and nineteen, and I came from crochy. I spent my original first thirteen years in La Whore, which is, I think, the second largest city in the country. Really Nice City, much like Montreal, or I would say Vermont Very Cultural, very artistic, lots of theater and debates and things of that nature. And then I moved to Croachy. My Dad got posted over that and Croachy is a less developed New York. Twenty million people, economics center, people from all sorts of different backgrounds and provinces and religions, all hanging out and trying to make a life for themselves, and so that's where I was before I came here. That's awesome. So you joined STA as an account executive and you get promoted to see Eo in your reflecting you know, hindsight two thousand and twenty. But how'd you do that? I honestly I think a lot of it is so much locked right. That's not to say that in everyone's journey there isn't an element of hard work and resiliency and doing things that unlocked certain opportunities, but there's also just a shittern of lot, I imagine, in it as well. For me, if I was to reflect and tell you what was the intentional part that I did that I thought, in looking back, opened up this type of...

...an opportunity for me, I think I was extremely lucky because the first real professional job I had was the thing that was at the interception of my talent and my interests. And if you do something professionally that is at that intersection and you get a decent amount of repetitions and your patient to have the you have a decent probability to develop expertise. In a business of pressolving problems, that expertise is really important. So for me, I think, looking back, the thing that probably made the biggest difference in my career was the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed what I was doing and I was able to just bite down and be patient and develop a level of expertise that allowed me to then start thinking a little bit differently about the problem we solved compared to other people in the industry. And so when time came where our founders decided they wanted to put somebody else in this position, I think they they thought through their different options, I imagine, and they felt that, even though I was probably the least experienced from a professional perspective to do this role, they would provide tons of great support to me and they could also internally, we had Christen Condon, who is one of the partners and a chief customer officer, and she had a lot of this skills and the capabilities that will plug my gaps, but my understanding of the space and the problem we solved to them was interesting, and so they put us at put me in this position and also Preston and hers, and we've been having a jolly good time doing what we do. I love it and workers through sort of your your perspective right now, because we know that given, as they say right the great resignation, but really the reality that there are, you know, there's there's chronic under employment in the sense that there are more there are more opportunities than there are people to fill those roles, and so I'm sure you've been in kind of like a bull market for your business over the last couple of years. What has it been like and how do you think about, you know, making sure that both you capitalize on the opportunity but that you're planning for the long term growth of a vest as well? It's a really interesting question, so I'll speak to it first, to what's what we've seen in the world, and if I forget to touch on the second point, please remind me. So, in terms of what's going on in the world, we look at it first from a macro perspective to understand what's driving these things, and we start with the pandemic, with the pandemic data months, the number of other things was it taught a lot of companies a poor lesson, which was that we need to invest in technologies to remain relevant, efficient and effective in this new dynamic that we find ourselves in. And these are companies in all sorts of sectors, right the ones that make tissue, paper and songs and all sorts of things. Well, that drove demand for technologies. At the same time, for some reason, companies also got a lot better digital transformation. Mackenzie, it really some data. That said companies were of twenty five times faster and move been through their transformation initiatives than before, which was fascinating.

And on the other side, on the consumer technology side, we were spending so much time at home buying tissue paper off of Amazon, and when you do that over and over again, you start developing an appreciation for online experiences. So what it did was it accelerated the digitization of customer interactions by three years. And so all of this drives demand for technologies. It's why investors look at that set and get super excited and have capitalized that sector as profusely as they have in the last year or so. And so now you have companies that have a lot of money and see a lot of demand. What do they have to do? They have to go and hire a bunch of people to capitalize on the opportunity at hand, and so that drives demand for people of all sorts, engineers and product marketers and go to market professionals. Now supply of talent is one of those things that unfortunately, you and I don't have a magic wand through which we can increase supply. It is what it is. Right. You can get more people to pick a careerpart that. That's a that's a long term strategy. Supply in the short term stays flat. Well, what does that do? It needs to a certainty outcomes, and will touch on that in a minute. But let's can testualize the supply and demand situation. So, Sam, we looked at, and I did this two days ago, so it's fresh data. I looked at the top ten major tech tubs in North America. San Francisco, Seattle, Washington, drawn to New York, Boston, Austin, La Ottaway and Vancouver. Firstly, three Canadian cities in the top ten North American cities. We're proud. There's that. There's that chronic, that chronic Canadian infer any complex, I find the opening. And so if we look at the number of software sales professionals in these markets, there are ninety one tho of them, and let's compare that to the number of open jobs. They are hundred and thirty seven thousand open software sales jobs in this market, meaning if every software sales professional took a new available job immediately, we'd still have forty six thousand unfilled jobs. That's not to mention the ones that left that job. There's backfills because those seats empty. That's a really intense type of market dynamic to be in. And when you look at other go to market roles, like customer success, you see very similar dynamics as well. And so in this extreme market, what's happening is compensation is rising, right, because there's more demand than supply, and so prompts have risen quite a lot, which is really good for people, but it is something companies are struggling to come to terms with. We've seen about a twenty to twenty five percent increase in most go to market roles, at least in the technology sector, in two thousand and twenty one. And if this market stays the way it is, so let's say put in in the US don't go to war and the market doesn't crash and it just stays in and around where it is right now, then compass run to increase even more because these dynamics continue to play out. Because of this journ over, risk also increases, right, because now you've got...

...all these companies that have a lot of money that need to hire and they're going to go after people and people are going to have interesting opportunities presented to themselves, and we've seen that great resignation data of fifty percent of people open to new opportunities. So turnover risk is a little bit more in this market as well, and it leads to the following other two secondary outcomes, which which is the companies will get a little bit more creative about the ideal candidate profile. Previously they could be a little bit more strict about how much relevant experience they need, but now they have to think a little bit more creatively, which then leads to the next one, which I'm really excited about, which is an increase in the investment in enablement and revenue operations. This is a function that has grown by two hundred percent in the last two years, eighteen times faster than all other sales roles. But I think they'll be even a larger investment in this function because when you hire creatively, you need to invest in onboarding them and ramping them up faster. When you are dealing with turnover risk, you know that if you invest in people's Development, it reduces turnover risk, and when you've got turnover risk you also want to think about trying to get more out of people, the people you've got, so to drive productivity per person up, you make an investment there. So that's kind of what's playing out in the market right now. Do you see a changing? Ever, it feels like so as I'm listening to you. Okay, rising Labor cast. I don't know. I mean, if it's pure inflation, would probably be that all of these be tob technology companies can then raise their prices and all of it is passed through ultimately to the consumer. I don't know. But if they're not able to do that, then there's margin compression and sort of the profile of running a company is now different because it's, to your point, twenty to twenty five percent more expensive. On the go to market side. One thing we know is that candidates have more power than then they've ever had. Do you see that changing in the in the near term? I mean forty seven thousand jobs and I think the number was what hundred and thirty three thousand, so that's close to it's not exactly fifty percent. Maybe it's like thirty five percent, but it's it's a lot. That's a very significant imbalance. Do you see things the pendulum flipping the other way anytime soon? Well, something interesting, Sam. So we did this CEO Pavilion Sashion, I think it was a turbo in November, where we looked at a similar data set, right, and at the time the difference between people and jobs was Elevenzero in these market. I remember that. I've been quoting that number every time. So it now I can increase it. Now I got a big and excess. So it's increased. And at the same time we've seen a market correction, right. So at the same time at the Fed said interest rates are coming OOP and everybody got a super head take because of that. And we see this market correcting where growth stocks have gone down by fifty percent as companies try to find, as investors try to find this new level in or this new level, and one would have thought that maybe that type of a situation would have impacted the am on for these...

...professionals and would have changed the dynamic maybe in favor of the companies, because that would be a little bit less to more, meaning that be a little bit less optionality and leverage that the candidates had, but instead it played out very differently. Actually, now they're more open jobs than the war before. I think the way I'm looking at it is the markets doing not correct and what's changing over there is how much you're willing to pay today to own a piece of a company that eventually is going to staut making some profit. So that's what's playing out there. But it doesn't change the fact that you've got a bunch of companies that raise a lot of capital last year that need to hit their targets to be able to make sure their investors remain happy and create an option to raise capital later. So they do want to invest in hiring and at the same time, the companies in the public market, they want a nextnet grow, but their valuation might drop and so the demand stays so I don't know what plays out in three or four years, but I would say on listen, until there is a serious recession or a serious market crash, the demand is going to stay high and supply is what it is, in which case this type of dynamic is going to be the reality. I think a crash is probably the only thing that significantly changes that. Yeah, I mean yeah, and there's been a correction, but the difference site it's hard to always drop parallels back to the distant past. At this point I mean two decades. You know, the firstcom crash and things like that, because there are fundamentals to these businesses that are are real. You know, these companies do make money, they do have products, so it's not quite the same thing, you know, in this in this new reality. You've mentioned that you feel like so many companies are complaining about a talent shortage, but they're the way that they are recruiting, in attracting talent is archaic. Talk to us about your perspective there and what companies can do to modernize their talent acquisition approach. It's a point I think about a lot right because on one side we see that companies are struggling to higher and it's I can understand why. But at the same time we've also seen that now, more than ever, people are open to a change, right, and we have to understand that. Next, supply of these professionals is higher today than it's ever been in a higher percentage of them are open to new opportunities than they've ever been. So if we are a really good company, well capitalized doing really interesting things in the market and we are really struggling. It's probably an internal problem than it is a market problem and I think an area of opportunity, and there are a few different areas of opportunity, but there is a significant opportunity in rethinking how we do talent our position. Let's just look at it from like force simple angles. The first is just a job description. It's such a simple place to start. The world's best companies still have horrendous job descriptions. We've done work on job descriptions from a language perspective for Dei, which is great, but we haven't really looked at it from a marketing Lens perspective. So if you think about it and elite professional when they choose to leave a company to take on a new role, are they just taking a...

...job or they thinking about our the other things? I think what they look at is do I connect with the purpose of this organization? Will I like working with these people? Will I grow here? Will they help me grow? Do I see real proof of that? That's what they are thinking about, where as our job descriptions right now are here's what the job is and here all the qualifications you must have to have the privilege to work over here. And here's a gym allowanced for somebody left the top perform in sales RAPP at snowflakes, want to leave to come to your series be company. It was. You subsidize the gym right. So I think that's a nice first place, simple first place to start. I think, and this might be specifically for technology companies hiring sales professionals, I think from we can probably do a lot more with awareness marketing. So linkedin, how sales professional spend day and night on Linkedin, and Linkedin is a great platform to run awareness adds on. It's not a great platform, at least in my experience, for conversions. But we could run some smart ads to the type of people we want to hire, just showing them who we are and what we do and why we are an interesting place to work, so that when these internal talent our position foods are reaching out to these people, there's brand recognition and there's a strong perception of that brand in the eyes of the people that we're trying to hire. And that brings me to the third point, which I think is at the way we structure talent our position internally. They are understaffed greatly. You know in that previously I used to think the most understaffed division will see us, and you guys are put out some great research during the peak of the pandemic which showed even at the peak companies had realized that they'd understaffed it and fifty two percent of companies were re allocating staff in to see us. Thirty percent were hiring in to see us. I see similar issues with talent acquisition. If you have a talent acquisition professional working on thirty different roles at the same time and you're confused as to why they are not head hunting for those roles, you're asking the wrong question. They do not have the time to headhunt for those roles. So I think we've understaffed that division and we get frustrated at these poor folks, whereas they just don't have the bandwidth to do the things that we think they need to do to meet those are some simple adjustments we can make, but you don't see a lot of companies looking at that function and trying to help it out. Don't you think recommending internal recruiters might harm the might harm sales talent agency business or I think. I think solving this problem one way or the other is important because it allows more and more companies to actualize that potential which, netnet, would lead to more opportunities. was unfortunately, we're not big enough to fill a hundred thousand roles. I'm sure there will be enough loss there as well. Do you think about changing the name? You mentioned that you're doing so much more than just sales. Give her worried that the brand is misunderstood based on just the highly literal name? Yeah, it's an interesting point. Right. I think we go by STA a little bit more than sales style an agency, because we do have to explain it a little bit. It's plain our journey,...

...but so far our our main godal market model internally is through our relationships and alliances and market in and when people come they're curious enough that we have an opportunity to printest realize overall business to them, and so they might thought they might be coming to us for the one or two things that they think that we do, but then there's an opportunity faust, to explain everything else. So so far it seems to be fine, but who knows what happens down the line? We know, maybe it becomes your pet project as an a CEO the very demigrate. We have a few minutes left. One last question I want to ask you is is just because I thought you're insights they were really interesting. What are some of the greatest lessons you've learned from your time working with with high growth company? Specifically, you know that the super successful category defining businesses in those that are you know that aren't quite as successful. What patterns do you see? It's an interesting question. Their few things. The one that comes to put top of mine right now is that I think the companies that have been extremely impressive are are not trying to look at these these standards in the market and just follow them blindly. So there's a simple one, right, triple, triple, double double, and because of that, inevitably some companies will try to grow before they're truly ready to grow. They haven't really solved product market fit, but in a frothy market they raised a shitount of money and then and they say let's go and high a ten sales people, which was obviously if you put sales people in the old you grow. That's how it works. It doesn't because you don't have enough top of the funnel support you don't have what it takes to close the deals, and so companies struggle. To me, the ones that are really sharp and end up doing really well they are thoughtful about product market fit. They raise money when they need to and how they need to, but they deployed based on the proof that their own business is telling them in terms of where they are and they're a little bit more calm and composed about their journey. That's not to say that they are some special companies out there that just up into the right and they do the triple, triple, double double, but I think there that's a few and a lot of the other ones that end up being great companies. They are little bit more measured and thoughtful in how they grow in and they don't let the market dictate the moves they make, the moves that their business is telling them they're ready to make. I love it. I like to think, I hope that I run one of those companies, but will say we're almost at the end of our time together. I said what other things we like to do at the end is paid forward a little bit, and what we do, what I mean by that is people and it can be. You know, it can be famous investors, it can be famous thought leaders, but people or ideas or content that have had a big impact on you and it could be a great book you've read, it could be, you know, the like if you love Steve Jobs. Who are the people that you think of had the biggest impact on you or...

...the ideas that have had the biggest impact on you and you think that we should know about? For me, when I took over this new role, some one of the blind spots, of many blind spots, was marketing. I've never run marketing before and I spent a lot of time trying to get good at it and along the way I came across a book called play bigger by Christopher lockhead and his partners, and I found his podcast and now they have a newsletter on category design and so these guys. The book play bigger was all about category design and it was a framework that I was really useful for me and I found it at the right time and it's informed a lot of the decisions we've made about how we'd run a position ourselves in the market, the things we want to talk about. A simple lesson I got from there was that if you can articulate the problem better than anyone else in the market, companies will want your point of view on the solution. And then obviously the second part is you better have a good point of view on the solution. But that became such a difference maker for us and our inbound engine just took off. And so all the many, you know, great people out then the great you know books and PODCASTS, etc. The one that has had a significant impact on me in the last eighteen or twenty four months has been Christopher lockhead on the work him and his crew have been doing. I love it and I've to have read play bigger. My only piece of advice, I said, would be just read the book, read the newsletter, but do not hire them. They're incredibly expensive and they're going to want meaningful equity and you're just gonna be like, I don't maybe, maybe, I'll just be back and read the book again. I think I don't know what I needed from the yeah, from the sideline. I said it's been great having on the show. We're going to talk to you on Friday for Friday fundamentals. But if folks want to reach out to you, what's the best way to get in touch with you. I seem to be hanging out on Linkedin a FAB bit, so if they want to find me that they can. My name is Austin Zamon, a sads, that a man, so find me that all. They can send me an email at also Dotsamon, a sales talent agencycom. I love it. Alsoid great talking to you. been so much fun getting to know you in the CEO Pavilion and I'll talk to you soon, I'm sure. Thanks, Sam. It's been a pleasure as well. Thanks for having me in bold and all of these things, and congratulations and everything you've also done. This has been a big year for pavilion and we all thrill to be part of that journey in one way or the other. Thank you, sir. I'll talk to you on Friday. Thank you, everybody. Sam's corner. I love that conversation with a said. He's a he's a friend of mine us, as you can probably tell, but just clearly a talented person, grasp of data, grasp with facts, weaving them into storytelling. It's just a pleasure to talk to him. And isn't it inspiring? Comes over from Pakistan, goes to Canada in two thousand and seven is doing doortodoor sales of yard equipment, enters sales talent agency as in a count executive and is now the CEO. That's awesome.

That's a wonderful story and I can just tell that he's doing a great job as a CEO. And you know, I think that there's there's a number of lessons, but one of the one of the points that he made is that, listen, there are forty seven thousand, forty six or forty seven thousand more sales job openings than there are sales people in the top ten major markets in the US and Canada, and that just puts tremendous pressure on companies to develop talent and to make their companies a great place to work and to make sure that people are aware that your company is a great place to work. And so, you know, he said salaries and compensation of increased twenty to twenty five percent over the last year or so, which is absolutely incredible and you know, he cites a lot of reasons for it. His or more fundamental and secular, as opposed to monetary not about you know, inflation or over increase of money supply, but really about the digit how Covid, and he mentioned that. McKenzie said he covid accelerated transformation by a significant factor and the digitization of the economy by a significant factor. And now that at that is created a number of major market forces. And you know, and when it comes to Friday fundamentals, will talk about one of the things you need to do when you're thinking about which company you want to work for. But in this session one of the things that we talked about is just the companies that are are chasing growth aggressively are often not as well position to succeed as those companies that are that are listening to the market more closely and asaid brings an analytical framework with which you can look at that. But you know, it boils down to looking at churn, looking at top of the funnel and engagement rates and conversion rates and understanding that you know, you might be one body that a company is trying to throw at in order to hit a revenue number, but but you want to be in as a salesperson is in a position to absorb inbound interest not necessarily have to create all of it from scratch. So there's a number of great lessons listening to USA. But the other is just the the the sheer opportunity that's possible in regulated capitalism and the ability for for people to move up and change their station in life and to start at the bottom and move all the way up in a relatively short amount of time. So it's just a really inspiring story. I think sales talent agency is doing a really good job. They're incredibly professional when it comes to recruitment and they're going to help you. Also mentioned that you know, even though it's not necessarily in his best interest, that companies do need to invest an inhouse talent acquisition and talent development and specialization in support around those roles. In addition to the obvious investments, you're going to have to make an enablement and training because you're gonna have to turn people that aren't necessarily sales people into sales people and that and that's just because there aren't enough. There are enough people that self identify sales people. So you're not probably going to be able to hit your hiring goals just by hiring people that are selfdescribed. So I thought that was interesting. Before we go, of course, we want to...

...thank our sponsors, pavilion the key to getting more out of your career. Private membership connects with a network of thousands of like minded peers. Unlock your professional potential. Take a look at join PAVILIONCOM. We also want to thank outreach. Traditional tools don't work in hybrid sales world. Find out why outreach is the right solution. At clicked that outreach, thatt Io for thirty MPC and, of course, minetackle. Do only a few reps made quote at each quarters. The majority of your revenue driven by a few top performers. That does not have to be the case. Drive winning sales rep behaviors so you can meet and beat quote every quarter. But to try dot mind tacklecom forward slash sales hacker. Try Dot mind TACKLECOM forward sales hacker. If you haven't given us five stars in the in the itunes story yet, please do that. If you have enjoined the sales hacker community yet, consider doing. That an incredible place to get questions asked and answered and to develop deep new relationships. And if you want to reach out to me, you can Sam at join Pavilioncom or you can find me on Linkedin. Otherwise, I'll talk to you next time.

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